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Post by Bashan on Apr 30, 2011 16:23:41 GMT -6
I did an unscientific oil temp study with a cooking thermometer that I thought you boneheads might find interesting. HEY! Close the porn on your computer for five minutes and try to learn something!  That's better. Anyway, I was in Bed Bath & Beyond with my wife the other day and they had this thermometer on sale for $8.00:
What I did is stick the probe down in the oil filler spout after a vigorous ride on three of my scooters. It was 80 degrees out and the scoots were topped off with oil. One of the variables was that my wife's Peace 150 and the Motorino 150 had plain old dino 10W-30 in them. I was in Wally World the other day and they had this on sale (I love sales!):
And that's what is in my Frankenscoot which, at one time, was identical to my wife's Peace 150. If you're not familiar with my Frankenscoot here is the cooling system:
Not really "forced air", more like "whatever the hell air feels like wafting over the cooling fins as I tool along". The fins running 90 degrees to the stock fins are JB Welded on and hand made by moi.
Here's how the degrees shook out on each scooter:
I just started using that ultra-synthetic in my Frankenscoot so the jury is out on whether it will slip past the rings or through the seals. I'm going to keep the oil checked plus watch for seeping and I think that will tell the tale. I got the idea from Oot Scoot who runs a very successful brick and mortar out on the left coast. They use Rotella diesel synthetic in their Sym engines.
By the way, I'm sure I don't have to say this but do NOT run your scooter with the thermometer stuck down in the filler. Just put it down in there immediately after you turn off the bike. I'm not sure how accurate it is but it's got to be in the ballpark. OK, you can go back to your porn now....but you better review this, there's a quiz in the morning  . Rich
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Post by sprocket on Apr 30, 2011 18:17:06 GMT -6
I'm testing Castrol mineral oil based T4 motorcycle oil...not certain if it counts as synthetic, but it sure is more slippery...
Sorry .. Castrol is part of BP... bummer!
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Post by tvnacman on Apr 30, 2011 19:27:59 GMT -6
gee I will have to look into thermisters to mount through the dipstick hole , for a real live running reading .
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Post by Hammerspur on May 1, 2011 3:31:30 GMT -6
gee I will have to look into thermisters to mount through the dipstick hole , for a real live running reading . Saw that done somewhere on the 'net... ?Bashan, Great Post! But... Looks like either the syn runs cooler or wind beats fan forced air. OR combination of the 2 factors yielded superior results. Could be a thumbs up for adding vents in the bodywork too. Exclusive of the oil factor I'm guessing if you did an extended idle temp test (with same oil in each, or maybe not?) the shrouded engines would not get as hot as the bare one, but a post vigorous run temp test (like you did) indicates bare beats shrouded/fan cooled. Dunno"  Good food for thought... |
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Post by Bashan on May 1, 2011 7:03:35 GMT -6
Exclusive of the oil factor I'm guessing if you did an extended idle temp test (with same oil in each, or maybe not?) the shrouded engines would not get as hot as the bare one.
That Sunpro gauge has its remote probe stuck down in the filler spout (OUCH!) and it reads about 10 degrees cooler than the oven thermometer. My gut tells me to go with the Martha Stewart variety for some reason for accuracy but it's splitting hairs anyway, it was getting too hot very quickly. If you ride a scoot for regular transportation and are going to have to stop in traffic at all do not remove your coolig fan and shroud. Rich |
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Post by Hammerspur on May 1, 2011 17:01:29 GMT -6
I wonder if there is any empirical evidence that those 'air scoops' that fit over the fan intake are of benefit, and if so do they cause any hindrance to sucking in enough air when at rest/idle...?
Anybody know?
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Post by sprocket on May 2, 2011 12:36:09 GMT -6
The air scoops look cool other than that they're a joke
Many aftermarket 'add-ons' are just smoke and mirrors.
There are more myths about increasing engine performance by people sticking on a foam filter
or an exotic spark plug than I can think of.
I get really tired of all the 'go faster' bull...and it is nice to see a decent study...like your oil one.
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Post by ce on May 2, 2011 14:47:20 GMT -6
Well, I haven't done a bona fide study with a thermometer, but I have removed all the vanes from my fan shroud and fitted a custom built scoop with a kitchen screen that works very well.
It draws in air free from the heat of the exhaust pipe, and is oriented to scoop air in from the front while under way, and up from the exhaust at idle.
Since you have all the latest technological advances known to man, Bashan, why don't you PM me your address, and I will send you an example for review.
Two bolts and 2 screws hold the fan shroud on, so installation takes 5 minutes, and you be scoopin'. just make sure the top forward tab on the shroud fits correctly with the corresponding edge on the top shroud, and you might have to relieve alittle from the black side cover on your wife's scooter. She'll never notice if you just keep quiet about doing experiments without her consent. She'll love you even more.
Constuction is from a roofing gutter 4" elbow from Home Depot with a kitchen screen hot glued in place after the louvres are all removed. You get 2 scoops from each elbow, so cost is about 3 dollars for each unit.
If you can prove they work, we'll sell them to neophytes for $39.95 and make enough money to buy a real scooter.
Not really, we'll keep it a secret and have the coolest scooters in the world. Real scooters. Chinese scooters.
Waddaya say, dude, you want a scoop? I'll make you one. Send me your address.
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Post by Hammerspur on May 2, 2011 15:08:44 GMT -6
>>>The air scoops look cool other than that they're a joke. Thanks for this JR. Many aftermarket 'add-ons' are just smoke and mirrors. There's one considered option crossed off my list!  Auxiliary to this fact ( hate to inspire paranoia here) if your shroud is not positioned correctly it will restrict in some areas and open up others for greater or lesser cooling. When I pulled the shroud from my removed engine the rubber coping seal between the halves (and the cylinder?... forget now) self-destructed... glued to one side in some places, the other half in others it pulled apart upon disassembly, dried/cured out, no elasticity to speak of. Plan to supplement it with high temp silicone, once I can figure out how/where that rubber jigsaw puzzle goes back together!  By the way, EM, mine has one of those little snorkels pointing at the carb bowl. There is virtually no chance in Hades I'll be riding this thing in weather/temps where carb 'warming' will be of any purpose , so that'll be plugged off letting the fan do its work blowing all its air volume for the intended purpose... 'cooling.' |
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Post by sprocket on May 2, 2011 16:20:20 GMT -6
The purpose of that snorkel is to prevent carburator icing, by warming the fuel slightly...you can get icing in fairly warm temperatures (70 deg F) and it depends on the temperature and the dew point. It is not so much the ambient air temperature rather the temperature drop that occurs as the air flows through the venturi and jets... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carburetor_heat |
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Post by Hammerspur on May 2, 2011 16:31:26 GMT -6
The purpose of that snorkel is to prevent carburator icing, by warming the fuel slightly...you can get icing in fairly warm temperatures (70 deg F) and it depends on the temperature and the dew point. It is not so much the ambient air temperature rather the temperature drop that occurs as the air flows through the venturi and jets... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carburetor_heatI've seen the auto version many times, but never had anything like that on any of my motorcycles. Could be the sheltered location in which the carb resides on a full bodied scooter makes them more prone to this phenomenon. Thanks for the link! Maybe I'll leave the duct unmolested after all... maybe not? ;D |
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Post by sprocket on May 2, 2011 17:04:06 GMT -6
Scoops ...poops... they can actually decrease the fan flow...by causing a vacuum at the fan entrance... it is like blowing across a Coke bottle... but scoops don't make a sound cause the fan is moving the vacuum/air all the time, although probably less than without a scoop.
The only way I know of increasing cooling on the GY6 is to add an electric fan on the exhaust side of the shroud...
This way you get a push-pull situation...
All you do with a scoop is try to push more air into a box...if the fan is efficient, which it is, then it is pushing as much air as possible into the box...
Don't believe all the after-marketing hype...
The French scooter website did a semi scientific study on fans, and grills and cooling effects etc
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Post by sprocket on May 2, 2011 17:51:27 GMT -6
>>why run cold air on a carb to warm it up
It is not cold air coming off a running engine... it is very warm. Just add a little 90deg elbow on your snorkel and point it at the float bowl... or pull the snorkel and leave the hole to blow up on the float bowl
I had a Suzuki Samurai and I could be guaranteed on a day when the temperature was 62 deg and 85% humidity you would go down the road for 10 miles and the engine would die. Wait 10 minutes and you could drive another 10 miles. The engine would die and so on... carburetor icing...
The wait would cause the engine heat to rise up and warm the carb and the engine would run again...
It never failed!
I ran a stainless flex pipe off the exhaust header to the carb with a pancake fan and never had a problem again...
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Post by ce on May 2, 2011 22:24:22 GMT -6
Smallest ID is the scoop at 4.05" Shroud with louvers removed is 4.25"
Airflow appears improved at idle, and is assumed to be optimum as directed at 40 miles an hour.
Chicken thermometer testing required for conclusive results.
In theory, it shouldn't work. In practicality, I believe it does, just like I believe the snorkle is to prevent the fuel bowl from boiling as it sits over a hot engine while idling.
Will somebody please prove me wrong, so we can put the issue to rest?
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Post by Hammerspur on May 3, 2011 4:01:45 GMT -6
Scoops ...poops... they can actually decrease the fan flow...by causing a vacuum at the fan entrance... it is like blowing across a Coke bottle... Seems to me this would be more likely without a scoop since direction of airflow when moving blows across fan opening. (Now I'm on the fence about that too!  ) In any event, I'm pretty certain removal of any grill/screen at the fan intake would be a very bad idea... rocks, sand in the dynamo, not good! |
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That's better. Anyway, I was in Bed Bath & Beyond with my wife the other day and they had this thermometer on sale for $8.00:
. Rich
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