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Post by Bashan on Nov 21, 2010 17:15:03 GMT -6
Hey John, I guess I'll respond to your e-mail here and try to finish up what I think is going on with all of this. Yes, I try to keep spare parts around, namely a coil, plugs, CDI, and a rectifier. However, I'm not sure I'd try the spare rectifier. Both of my Bashan rectifiers work perfect but test OL on all of the diode tests. I think this is because my multimeter has a max test voltage of 1.5V for diodes and the internal configuration of the two exceeds that. From what I've read the OL means over limit, over load, or open loop depending on what manual your reading. It just means the meter can't read the input.
Now, I tested both of my Bashan rectifiers in the scooters while running and I got some interesting results. The red wire of course increases in DC voltage up to about 14 as the RPMs go up. The white wire goes up to about 16V AC as the RPMs go up! At first I thought this was abnormal but it did it on both of my scooters. You mentioned you were getting 16V but it blew out your lights....very strange. My white wire however terminates in the rectifier and does not energize the lights. The yellow wire does power the headlights but its voltage decreased from 12V at idle to 10V AC with the higher RPMs.
So here's the gist:- Two Bashan rectifiers test OL for every diode yet work perfectly
- Spare rectifier tests as expected according to schematic
- Two Bashan rectifiers supply about 14V DC to red, 16V AC to white, and 10V AC to yellow with about 4000 RPM.
- I've yet to work up the courage to try the spare in my scooters...hey, they're running great right now!
- If the spare DID work it would mean there are various ways to configure rectifiers to achieve the same output.
Rich
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Post by tvnacman on Nov 22, 2010 15:07:37 GMT -6
Rich my charging voltage ran away I shut it down at 16vdc , I did not blow my lights. What model bashan do you have ? the link I sent you listed a bashan TPGS-808B , if this matches your scooter I would feel better about buying this item blind. John
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Post by Bashan on Nov 22, 2010 15:54:37 GMT -6
I tell ya John the model numbers and IDs on Chinese scoots are so arbitrary the numbers are often meaningless. GES sold it as an MP08 but the '08 just meant the year. I looked at the VIN on my insurance card and there wasn't anything that looked close to what you posted. I'm at work and I'll try to remember to look at the ID plate when I get home and see if anything pops out as similar. Hey, when you tested the FLP rectifier did you get any diode readings other than OL? Rich
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Post by tvnacman on Nov 22, 2010 18:04:50 GMT -6
Rich I would have to recheck , identifing the diodes was not what I was looking for, that regulator is a half wave into a filter then into a zener diode, the ac voltage dropping is just that the rectifier was using more power to make dcv so the ac voltage drops for dc output . So my answer at this time is no I did not. so the yellow and white would be attached to the anodes and then cathodes would be tied together in paralel to the filter and zeners cathode going out on the red wire . internally the zener shunts/shorts the over voltage to ground to keep a max output voltage under 14.5 vdc . If it were a fullwave rectifer you could read the diodes. John
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Post by tvnacman on Nov 22, 2010 18:13:56 GMT -6
Rich the regulator that I sent you a link for is not the one we need, I spoke to someone that had it on the shelf and he did a few measurments for me . The man was very nice and informed me that this is not the first time he has heard/seen this problem , he had no answer for me.(imo) if my regulator burns out , I will have to come up with a creative way to make my scooter charge. I was looking at the old ford external voltage regulator. John
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Post by Bashan on Nov 23, 2010 8:13:01 GMT -6
Rich I would have to recheck , identifing the diodes was not what I was looking for, that regulator is a half wave into a filter then into a zener diode, the ac voltage dropping is just that the rectifier was using more power to make dcv so the ac voltage drops for dc output . So my answer at this time is no I did not. so the yellow and white would be attached to the anodes and then cathodes would be tied together in paralel to the filter and zeners cathode going out on the red wire . internally the zener shunts/shorts the over voltage to ground to keep a max output voltage under 14.5 vdc . If it were a fullwave rectifer you could read the diodes. John In trying to figure this out I ran into all of the terminology in your post......but I don't know what the hell you're talking about! . No fault of yours, electronics is not my forte'. I looked on the ID plate of my scooter and this is the only section that might be relevant:
ENGINE FAMILY: 8PCGC: 150SA1 MFR: CHONGQUING ASTRONAUTIC BASHAN MOTORCYCLE IMPORTER: PEACE INDUSTRIES
Here's the ID plate:
Here's the engine stamp:
I just hope my rectifier never blows! If you find something that works please let me know. Rich
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Post by Bashan on Nov 27, 2010 18:22:10 GMT -6
Hey John, Dave at Absolutely Scooters has a rectifier that he says is FLP. The damn thing is 30+ dollars but if that's what it takes I guess I'll get one. It doesn't look the same but the catalog insists it's FLP. That means you were right all along, there is a specific regulator that is FLP and operates different from most others. Rich
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Post by tvnacman on Nov 27, 2010 23:30:13 GMT -6
down boy, slow down , I had someone with that regulator on the shelf ohm it out , i think its a no go
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Post by Bashan on Nov 29, 2010 10:27:31 GMT -6
Arf Arf! I wanna rectifier! Pant pant! Oops, I just made a mess on the floor, here comes Sue with a rolled up newspaper! Ouch!
John and I have been talking behind y'all's backs, we think we might have found the mystery rectifier. I may end up with five or six of them and I may need everyone of them. Let me explain.
I'm redoing my scooter and I think I'm going with an ultra-bare look. It's going to be just frame, engine, seat, tank, and a few lights. When I took it all apart I discovered that the yellow wire runs from the stator to the R/R and then to the front for the AC lights. The red runs up to the switch and then does a U turn and heads back to the tail lights and takes a quick stop off at the solenoid actuator wire. Other than the CDI stuff that's about it. Now, here's the hypothetical: say you ran a DC headlight right off of the battery. I've already did this to some degree but the yellow was still running the dash lights etc. I'm talking about the yellow doing nothing but going to the stator and helping the white supply DC for the whole bike. before you blow a fuse there won't be very many lights. Headlight and tail lights, that's about it, so very little stress on the electrical system. What do y'all think? Rich
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Post by tvnacman on Nov 29, 2010 19:29:38 GMT -6
well , interesting thought ,////yellow to regulator white to battery, red from battery to regulator to stator . fuse off battery to headlights , another fuse off battery to dash and park lights sounds like harnes mod I could make it work
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Post by tvnacman on Nov 29, 2010 19:31:38 GMT -6
do share links or sorce for regulator
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Post by tvnacman on Nov 30, 2010 4:50:13 GMT -6
Rich I sent you an email I ordered the regulators . If it works out I will be happy to share .
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Post by Bashan on Dec 1, 2010 5:16:25 GMT -6
Cool, thanks John, I'll be in touch. OK, here's another hypothetical that I think stands a better chance of not frying the R/R. I read up on this yesterday but just theory, not specifically about scooters or motorcycles. I've got a big arse bucket headlight on the shelf but it's DC of course, it has a red and black wire. If I remember right it's 35 watts or maybe a little more. How about hooking the yellow to that and then there'd be a load on the yellow as usual. It's a DC light but from what I read, unless it's a LED, it doesn't care which way the electrons move as long as they're moving, even back and forth as in AC. Then everything can be as before: the yellow can do the headlight(s), the white can terminate in the R/R, and the red can do the battery and tail lights. Hell, the bulbs most of you have for headlights are good old 1157 DC anyway. Thoughts? Rich
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Post by tvnacman on Dec 1, 2010 17:42:22 GMT -6
Rich the charging system in the scooters are very weak at best , I'm sure it will light the lite , but will it over tax the charging system
I'm not familar with the meter you are using , the meter I use is auto ranging and will read very high resistance . If you refer to the chart I sent you 305k ohms .5meg ohms 1 ohm 1k ohm k=1000 1M ohm M=1,000,000 if your meter, would not read anything off your regulator, and your regulator is the same as mine , you need to see what restance range your meter will read.for example: if your meter only reads up to 200k, you would not be able to read what the restance was, on the first measurment on my chart. Each function on your meter has its range and accuracy and is printed in the booklet that came with your meter. John
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Post by tvnacman on Dec 4, 2010 19:37:19 GMT -6
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