The Matrix: Rebuilding By runningslow (Read 25,998 times)

[runningslow]

Feb 19, 2012 10:06:15 GMT -6 bcgreatness said:

you quit? dont give up just yet. theres got to be a reason your getting low compression... maybe the gauge is broke? i would try to get a second opinion before your call it quits. i want to see that bike on the road!

Not giving up on the bike. Just giving up on my ability to get it running. I think its time to turn it over to a pro.

Sent from my MoPho using the ProBoards App

[tmec]

why are you trying to use old parts? put a new top end on it and ride.

if you have the ability to come this far you have the ability to make it run with all new parts.

www.amazon.com/Chinese-Taiwanese-Korean-Scooters-Haynes/dp/B003CDDEQE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1329669713&sr=8-1&tag=533643275-20

[runningslow]

Feb 19, 2012 17:44:14 GMT -6 tmec said:

why are you trying to use old parts? put a new top end on it and ride.

if you have the ability to come this far you have the ability to make it run with all new parts.

I don't doubt my ability to perform the tasks needed, but I lack the experience to know what I'm doing.
Just call my frustrated. I haven't ridden in 6 months. I need to ride.

You make it sound so easy. This isn't a standard GY6 motor, so I've had a hard time finding parts. My head stud spacing is slightly larger than standard, so most of the heads and cylinder kits you see will not work. I've mananged to find one place that has parts that would work, but I'm not prepared to spend $260 right now.
www.partsforscooters.com/169-205_180cc_Cylinder_Head
www.partsforscooters.com/GY6-150cc_63mm-Cylinder-Kit

If I'm going to spend that kind of money, I'd seriously just consider buying another motor.

I'm weighing my options, but most will require waiting on funds:
-Find a scooter or small motor mechanic.
-Buy parts to fix this motor.
-Buy new motor.
-Finally do the 250 swap I've dreamed about.
-Buy a motorcycle.

That last one will probably happen anyway. In which case, I may just sit on the scooter until I can decide what to do.

[runningslow]

Now that I've had some time to calm down after a disappointing weekend...

I could get it idle again and compression was up slightly. Perhaps its a faulty tool or not suited to a small cylinder (as I did read on some of the Harbor Freight reviews).

Lets talk about the symptoms:
-Plug is black.
-I was getting some smoke out the exhaust. Initially it was blue, but that started to dissipate the more it ran, so I attributed that to opening up the cylinder. I didn't run it too long this time and it did seem to be going away.
-Dies as soon as you give it gas. This time I was able to rev it up once and get the back wheel to move for a second before it died.

Considered course of action:
-Replace all hoses and clamps.
-Order a new carb.
-B&S muffler. The exhaust I'm using is falling apart (loose baffles) and I cannot mount the other one I have without a different bracket. The one that's falling apart is going to be sacrificed for the header pipe for B&S mod.

[jct842]

With a B&S muffler just make sure you have an appropriate air cleaner and do check the jetting as you need to be on the rich side. john

[runningslow]

Feb 21, 2012 14:01:20 GMT -6 jct842 said:

With a B&S muffler just make sure you have an appropriate air cleaner and do check the jetting as you need to be on the rich side. john

What do you mean by appropriate air cleaner? I still have the factory airbox installed on the bike.

[jct842]

When you put a less restrictive exhaust on you will need to let more air in and also go through re-jetting. Doing one with out the other, it will run poorly. There are many threads here about that and the library has much on performance tunning. john

[sprocket]

Smoking...BLUE ... burning oil...if it is a new rebuild this may occur until the rings seat...

Let it warm up for a few minutes...before giving it throttle...it could be also running rich. My scooter is perfectly tuned and I can stall it giving it gas when it starts...

Replace the whole exhaust... the pipe will be paper thin... get a stainless exhaust pipe and it will outlast the scooter...

If the carb is totally clean and no holes in the diaphragm why replace it?

[runningslow]

Feb 21, 2012 19:01:11 GMT -6 sprocket said:

Smoking...BLUE ... burning oil...if it is a new rebuild this may occur until the rings seat...

Let it warm up for a few minutes...before giving it throttle...it could be also running rich. My scooter is perfectly tuned and I can stall it giving it gas when it starts...

Replace the whole exhaust... the pipe will be paper thin... get a stainless exhaust pipe and it will outlast the scooter...

If the carb is totally clean and no holes in the diaphragm why replace it?

It was only blue initially, which I think was just burning off oil that got in during the rebuild. I didn't really run it long enough to see if it would completely clear up. Frustration and disappointment took over and I essentially stormed into the house. Haven't touched the bike since. Tools still splayed about.

I'm certain its running rich... the plug is coming out sooty black.

Could the fact that I'm using a blown exhaust be a part of the problem??? If you take it off and shake it, you can hear the baffles rattling.

While I don't have the money right now, I do want to replace the whole exhaust, again. I'm not a fan of shiny, so unless you know a good way to paint a stainless pipe, I don't want one.

I have a stock variety muffler to use for now, but I need to make a bracket for it, or modify the one I have. (It wasn't the stock variety for my scoot...)

I'm positive that the carb is clean, but I don't know if its working right. I was going to spend the ~$30 just for the peace of mind and to rule that out.

I'm seriously open to suggestions on how to proceed.

[sprocket]

Sure there are coatings for exhaust pipes that will make it black.. actually a stainless pipe will go dark anyway...there may even be paint that will take the heat...

the blown exhaust could be part of the problem, hard to say.. the GY6 engines likes some back pressure...it might be causing a rich condition I don't know...

You should do an air/fuel mixture adjustment for a start... heat the engine for 5 minutes then adjust

[runningslow]

Feb 22, 2012 14:25:04 GMT -6 sprocket said:

You should do an air/fuel mixture adjustment for a start... heat the engine for 5 minutes then adjust

Right now... when you say heat the engine... my brain goes to starting a campfire under the scooter. That's not a good sign.

[bcgreatness]

I can see how your frustrations make it easy to ponder burning your scooter to the ground. I felt that way earlier when my exhaust studs fell out again earlier today. When it does that i have to re tap the threads again but deeper because the lower ones strip out. I use a heli coil after tapping the threads what happens is pressure on the muffler pull the entire screw and the coil out it strips out all the threat on its way out. After that the area that was just stripped cannot be used again because it's to big for the tap so that's why i have to tap deeper to grab new thread. Like i said, had to do that 3 times already. Feel like junking it sometimes.

[kz1000st]

Whenever I hear sooty black I think a restriction in the air filter or the choke is sticking. Long story. I had a Kawasaki with 80,000 miles at the time. One day it started to run then die. When I pulled the plugs they were sooty black. It kept running and dying until I pulled the air filter and it ran perfectly. I looked inside the air filter and it was filled with crap. Outside was perfectly clean. That was when I realized that the air filter breathed backwards to what I thought. I was looking at the outside and it looked fine. Once I followed the intake I realized my mistake and bought a new one.

Sooty, to me, means lack of air which is different from rich. Imagine covering the air filter opening until the engine dies from lack of air. Kinda like that but with enough air to keep it running but not well.

[runningslow]

Feb 22, 2012 19:29:29 GMT -6 kz1000st said:

Whenever I hear sooty black I think a restriction in the air filter or the choke is sticking. Long story. I had a Kawasaki with 80,000 miles at the time. One day it started to run then die. When I pulled the plugs they were sooty black. It kept running and dying until I pulled the air filter and it ran perfectly. I looked inside the air filter and it was filled with crap. Outside was perfectly clean. That was when I realized that the air filter breathed backwards to what I thought. I was looking at the outside and it looked fine. Once I followed the intake I realized my mistake and bought a new one.

Sooty, to me, means lack of air which is different from rich. Imagine covering the air filter opening until the engine dies from lack of air. Kinda like that but with enough air to keep it running but not well.

Right now, there's no filter in my airbox. Could a restricted exhaust cause the same thing?

[runningslow]

Feb 22, 2012 18:18:57 GMT -6 bcgreatness said:

I can see how your frustrations make it easy to ponder burning your scooter to the ground. I felt that way earlier when my exhaust studs fell out again earlier today. When it does that i have to re tap the threads again but deeper because the lower ones strip out. I use a heli coil after tapping the threads what happens is pressure on the muffler pull the entire screw and the coil out it strips out all the threat on its way out. After that the area that was just stripped cannot be used again because it's to big for the tap so that's why i have to tap deeper to grab new thread. Like i said, had to do that 3 times already. Feel like junking it sometimes.

Over the three years I've owned this scoot, there have been many jokes about wrapping it around a tree, finding a cliff, leaving it unguarded in a bad neighborhood, and (my personal favorite) taking it on an airboat ride into the everglades....

I know most of the problems have been self inflicted from riding it too hard, though there were some manufacturing issues that the dealer worked out with the manufacturer/importer before they went under.

I definitely have some sentimental attachment to it, which is why I keep it around and why I'm trying to finally get her back on the road.