sparkplug-cdi issue: Help ! By Kaveman (Read 4,776 times)

[Alleyoop]

From your saying it sounds like your solenoid is bad. To prove that touch both terminals on the solenoid and if it spins your starter your solenoid is bad. The Clicking you hear is the Contact inside the Solenoid when you press the Start button it is not making contact with the Ground wire to send the juice to the starter.
Alleyoop

[Kaveman]

Did that already! No spin when red connected to black. ! Nothing voltagewise is getting through the red cable !! No power on red cable means scoots not going to start with starter no matter what I try to do til that power is restored to it .

[tvnacman]

is this red wire start at the battery ? then should go to the starter solinoid . take voltage measurements at both large terminals on the solinoid ?

[Bashan]

The ground wires, all of them, should be checked. The solenoid could be hinky, the starter could be toast, John is correct and you could technically touch the base of the starter to the black terminal of the battery, while making sure the starter cable is getting a good positive 12v DC, and it should spin.

I know most of you already know this but let's make sure we're on the same page. The red cable on the solenoid runs right from the battery:

The solenoid is simply a switch that is electrically closed when you hit the starter button. The juice runs from the battery via the red cable, across the terminals of the solenoid, through the black cable, through the starter, into the frame from it's mount on the engine, and back to the battery. The solenoid is two circuits, the little one that closes the big one; check them all, every connection. Test all the wires for continuity. Check the starter, it could hit a couple times and then quit working when it heats up. Just because the solenoid clicks doesn't mean it's getting the 12v DC across the big circuit to the starter. A lot of plastic is going to have to come off here IMO. Alley is correct, there's also an engine ground that must be solid to the frame for the starter to be grounded, and to get a decent spark on another circuit.

[Cruiser]

Jul 16, 2011 23:14:14 GMT -6 Kaveman said:

Did that already! No spin when red connected to black. ! Nothing voltagewise is getting through the red cable !! No power on red cable means scoots not going to start with starter no matter what I try to do til that power is restored to it .

You're right Bill. The heavy red wire from the battery should measure 12 volts at both ends. If you do not get this reading only at the point where it connects to the starter relay, then the wire has a bad crimp and is open. If you measure zero at both ends then check the ground assuming you are putting the negative (black) lead of the voltmeter somewhere other than the negative post of the battery.

[tvnacman]

I say get a test light , connect to the positive lead of the battery , then with the pointer touch the engine (light ----no light) then touch the frame (light-----no light) touch the sparkplug where it screws in (light------no light) above with a charged battery and key off ..

very simple and quick to do !!!!!


John

[Bashan]

Oddly enough, I had to work on my wife's scooter this morning and exposed the red cable that we've been talking about. You can see in this picture that it runs all the way from the solenoid down to the positive battery terminal:

Also, I took a picture of the engine ground. I may have moved this from where it was originally however since I think it's a good idea to have the ground close to the spark plug. The other end of this black cable goes right to the negative terminal of the battery:

[Kaveman]

Ok . I just checked for connectivity on the red ( positive voltage) primary wire that goes to the soleniod from the battery . It checked out ok. I did a quick voltage check from the red positive solenoid end to negitive frame ground . That checked out at 12.8V DC . That means I do have positive voltage connected to the solenoid on the red end from the battery. Now what next ? Where does the opposite end of the black solenoid go to ? Starter motor ?
???will

[sprocket]

Yup it is hot wire going to the starter motor... the motor has one wire and is grounded to the engine...
and the engine is grounded to the frame...

Make certain you have a good ground from the engine to the frame...

[Kaveman]

I'll pull the starter and check the cable going down to it .
Will

[Kaveman]

Ok I pulled my starter . question : There is supposed to be no connectivity with the black cable to the grounded starter outerbody correct till power is applied via the solenoid ? I checked for connectivity on the starter and found it went right to the solenoid tip from the starters body
will .

[Kaveman]

I think I finally found what I was looking for . It's the starter ! Question , Shouldn't the gear end be spinning freely right away when voltage is appied ( 10 volt test supply)and not grindng and trying to move or freezing up entirely ( shutting the circut down in the process) when voltage is applied? (Those old AT power supplys sure come in handy .Even if they are only 20+ years old !! :-) )

will

[Bashan]

Yep, the starter is bad. It's supposed to spin freely, grinding is bad. In regards to the continuity for the starter body, think of it as an extension of the black cable from the solenoid. The body and mount are the ground to the engine which then grounds to the frame via a cable. You can touch the multimeter probe right on the body of the starter and the other on the end of the starter's cable on the solenoid and get a tone. You don't have to apply voltage to get continuity. Congratulations Will, you figured it out! Rich

[Cruiser]

Jul 18, 2011 17:38:53 GMT -6 Kaveman said:

Ok I pulled my starter . question : There is supposed to be no connectivity with the black cable to the grounded starter outerbody correct till power is applied via the solenoid ? I checked for connectivity on the starter and found it went right to the solenoid tip from the starters body
will .

There should be continuity in this case as you are reading the windings of the starter. I have not been able to find what the limits should be. Zero ohms or very close to zero would be considered a shorted starter.

[tvnacman]

Jul 18, 2011 18:15:42 GMT -6 Kaveman said:

I think I finally found what I was looking for . It's the starter ! Question , Shouldn't the gear end be spinning freely right away when voltage is appied ( 10 volt test supply)and not grindng and trying to move or freezing up entirely ( shutting the circut down in the process) when voltage is applied? (Those old AT power supplys sure come in handy .Even if they are only 20+ years old !! :-) )

will

what is the current "A" or "I" of that power supply and why is it only 10vdc ,,,,, voltage is pressure in an electrical circuit , current/amps is flow rate,,, resistance is what the pressure needs to overcome for it to flow! I'm not sure however under load I would think you would need at a min 5 to 10 amps to turn that motor in surge to get it off locked rotor.

It would be best to check that starter connected to a good charged battery . Once you stated 10vdc NOT ENOUGH VOLTAGE .

now take your ohm meter an put one probe to the negative battery terminal and the other to the engine case and post what the meter reads .

this will take seconds!!!!!!

John