CH80 issues with ignition & wobble By 80ccsofawesome (Read 4,383 times)

[80ccsofawesome]

hi all,

i'm new to the forum and recently acquired a 1987 Honda Elite CH80, which started up and ran like a charm up until a few weeks ago, when i carelessly left her out in a heavy rainstorm overnight. after that all i heard was a horrible grinding noise coming from the general area of the carburetor whenever i tried to start her up. after a week or two of research and asking around, i finally replaced the sparkplug and recharged the battery (which had drained down to around 11V, when the minimum specified by the manual is 12.3V) and that did the trick. at first.

the next morning, much to my consternation, i couldn't get her to start. i came back from work around 8 hours later thinking i had a bigger problem in the electrical system somewhere, but when i gave it another try, she started up no problem. same thing the next day and the day after that. this morning, after sitting unused for over a day, she started up again no problem. but this afternoon when i left work i again had a lot of trouble getting the engine to start, though it finally did after pressing the start button and opening the throttle about 10-15 times.

so, that's my first problem. it should go without saying that ever since she wouldn't start after that first rainstorm, i've been very diligent about making sure she's covered up before it rains, so i don't think water is playing a causative role anymore. any ideas?

my second problem is that the front wheel of the bike wobbles, somewhat unpredictably. at first it would only happen when i had some relatively heavy groceries in the basket behind the seat over the taillight (installed by the previous owner), and i figured this had something to do with the 11-pound weight maximum. however, after i got her running after the rain fiasco, i started getting a wobble with no weight in the back at all, whenever i hit 15-20 mph. that happened for a few days and then stopped happening. this morning i had her up to 35-40mph with no wobble whatsoever. however, on my ride back home she started wobbling again! again at a speed of around 15-20mph. but it didn't happen consistently at this speed because between stoplights i could get the speed up to 25-30mph sometimes without any wobble.

does this sound diagnosable to anyone? fyi, the tire pressure in both the front and rear tires is good (21psi in the front and 31psi in the back, per the maintenance manual) and there are no leaks in either tire.

sorry for the long post, and thanks in advance for any help you can offer!

[sprocket]

Set your valve gaps...

The rain storm thing indicates a poor ground.. or wiring short...

Sounds like a front fork problem... wheel bearing etc...

Don't use it until you get the wobble figured out.. it is dangerous and could injure or kill you...

[80ccsofawesome]

thanks for the advice sprocket... now i just need to figure out how to set my valve gaps (or what a valve gap even is!) ;D

the front fork issue sounds more serious. is this something i can do myself or do i have to take it to a professional to get serviced?

thanks,
casey

[Bashan]

Aug 24, 2011 8:56:20 GMT -6 80ccsofawesome said:

thanks for the advice sprocket... now i just need to figure out how to set my valve gaps (or what a valve gap even is!) ;D

Aug 24, 2011 8:56:20 GMT -6 80ccsofawesome said:

the front fork issue sounds more serious. is this something i can do myself or do i have to take it to a professional to get serviced? thanks,
casey

The front fork could involve the bearings in the steering head. You definately need to know what your doing or have someone that does know handle it. Rich

[sprocket]

I'm with Rich on this one...you need to find out if it is the steering bearings or a wheel bearing...

Best left for a pro...

[80ccsofawesome]

Thanks for the feedback guys, and especially for the how-to video. In general, can the instructional how-to's on the internet for the GY6 engine (and there are a lot of them) be applied to servicing the engine that comes standard in the CH80?

Also, here's some advice I got from a guy who runs a scooter shop out in California regarding the starting problem, I'd be interested to hear what you all think:

"I'd clean the carb and the airbox, and make sure all connections to the carb are sealed and not leaking air. You can check the valves, it's not a bad idea. But bad valve clearances would not lead to the sporadic starting problems you're seeing."

And the same guy, re: the wobble:

"Your front rim is probably bent. Also, your forks could possibly be loose. Just prop the scooter up so the front wheel spins. Spin it and look for wobble in the rim or the tire. If the rim is bent more than a little bit, it will need to be replaced."

As a first step before taking it in for servicing, I was thinking about buying a torque wrench and making sure every nut connected to the front wheel & fork are tightened to the service manual specs. Does this seem reasonable or am I just wasting time?

[sprocket]

CH80 are a different engine so while some this apply in general many things specific to the GY6 won't apply...

I agree to check for a bent wheel first...torque wrench won't be of benefit.. just make certain the nuts are all tight...

Valve gaps can be a HUGE problem with starting on a GY6 especially when the engine is hot.. perhaps the CH80 is not the same...

[80ccsofawesome]

so here's a video of my wheel, how bad do you think the wobble is? do i need to replace the rim? if not, can i get it straightened out?

[Bashan]

Hey, how do you expect us to do anything around here without some pictures!? Great job with the video, I wish more people would take the time to do that. That's a bent rim and I'd replace it. What has me a little confused is that you say it wobbles unpredictably. That's what made me think it was a bearing, and that may still be part of this problem. A bent rim is a bent rim rim so it wobbles everytime you take off, why yours is doing it intermittantly is a poser. In any event, you need a new rim. We have a manual on the CH 80, here is a link to it. It's not the clearest manual we have but hopefully you can get some info out of it. I think there's some other manuals under Honda that pertain to that bike. Just go to the Manuals, Help Files, and PDIs board and click on Non-Chinese Manuals. Rich

[sprocket]

You need to put a fixed point (2 x 4) standing up to the wheel and see if it is the wheel or the tire.. you can't tell from the video...If the wheel is pressed steel you may be able to have it straighten.. if it is cast aluminum likely not...I would look at the wheel bearings also and the spline to the axle...

Don't ride it like that...

[80ccsofawesome]

Thanks guys. I've determined that the rim is indeed bent, and I'm waiting on a new one to be shipped, hopefully by later this week. Since it seems like a huge pain in the arse to transfer tires from rim to rim, I'm going to try and remove the old rim myself, take it and the new rim to a local shop for the transfer of the tire, then install the new rim.

As for the starting problem, I'm going to start with the carb and the air filter and see if I can identify any problems there. If the air filter got water-logged or something, is there any way to clean it or do I need to buy a new filter?

[sprocket]

Good move...on the wheel...

On the filter ..if it is foam..wash it out in dish soap and dry it in the sun...then apply a bit of foam oil. If it is paper or cotton, you need to replace it...

[80ccsofawesome]

okay, here's the update...

i replaced the air filter with a brand new one, which i'm sure is good for the bike, but it didn't do much for my starting problem.

with regard to the starting problem, i've noticed an important pattern: if the bike has been sitting overnight or any other prolonged period, the next time i try to start her up is a bitch, but after it's been "primed" like this, it starts up much easier. at first i have to press the starter button and open the throttle maybe 10 or 15 times before the engine will start, but if i shut off the engine and then try to start it again, it only takes 4 or 5 tries. if i cut it and try it again, it only takes 2 or 3, and sometimes it'll start on the first try. but if i let it sit again for a day or so, the same problem happens all over again.

to me this suggests some kind of problem with fuel delivery, though i don't know enough about the engine to guess intelligently as to what it could be. any ideas?

re: the tire, i got a new rim, which i've been told is a stock wheel even though it's got a decent amount of light rust which i'll try to remove with naval jelly and then prime with some kind of rust repellant before installation. the tire i received, however, did not include the collar or dust seal that goes around the axle. here's a picture from the service manual to show you what i mean:



my question is, can i transfer the collar and seal from the old rim to the new one, or do i have to buy a new set to install onto the new rim?

thanks again for your help & expertise guys, it is much appreciated!

[sprocket]

On the starting.. I vaguely recall that those scooters had problems with the enrichers (choke)...you may want to research that...

[drjeff]

have you adjusted the valves properly?