China Scoots Winning By kz1000st (Read 1,663 times)

[kz1000st]

It appears mighty Honda is bowing to the superiority of Chinese scooters.

www.motorscooterguide.net/files/2012-Honda-Scooters-Ruckus-Silverwing.html

I guess it's hard to sell $3500 125s when the competition is wiping you up with good scooters at one-third the price.

[cookees]

When you compare the Honda SH150i to the CFMOTO Glory that we were selling for $1895...it's a no-brainer.

[Bashan]

Wow, I'm stunned, I thought they would stay in the scooter market big time. I guess they refuse to make something that folks could actually afford. Good grief, almost 10K for a Silverwing? I know they're a great scooter but come on, that's a car. I doubt there's few Wingers out there that can work on their own bikes either. How about it, I know we have a few on the forum and proud to have you. But can you realistically work on your scoot? Rich

[kz1000st]

Nov 20, 2011 10:47:52 GMT -6 cookees said:

When you compare the Honda SH150i to the CFMOTO Glory that we were selling for $1895...it's a no-brainer.

I always compare the SH 150i to the E-Charm when I argue...uh, discuss it... with people. Same size wheels, same cooling system and fuel injected. I could almost buy three for the price of one Honda.

www.scootersonly.net/

[cookees]

I favor the Glory over the eCharm. The seat is about an inch lower and we find it suits our women customers a little bit better.

[ce]

I'm pretty scared to work on the Wing. I changed the oil, and that was no sweat with a Super Tech filter 7317 for $2.84 at Walmart and some 15 w 40 Rotella T fork lift oil.

Next up is a tire change, and then some 26 gram 28 x 20 Dr. Pulley sliders.

And I have a Sumitomo 165 65 13 car tire to put on the rear, but I'm really scared to go Darkside because the sidewalls are so mushy compared to a Shinko. There's a dude on Silverwing forum that has 26,000 miles on a Darkside Sumitomo.

Even scarier is enlisting a motorcycle mechanic to work on it when I'm not around.

Since it's a Honda, I think I'll ride it till it starts making noises or leaking, which was my initial plan.

[Jeff]

Nov 20, 2011 7:53:34 GMT -6 kz1000st said:

It appears mighty Honda is bowing to the superiority of Chinese scooters.

www.motorscooterguide.net/files/2012-Honda-Scooters-Ruckus-Silverwing.html

I guess it's hard to sell $3500 125s when the competition is wiping you up with good scooters at one-third the price.

Wow, are you ever clueless! Chinese scooters are superior... In what way exactly? Please don't say they are superior because they cost less. I had a Roketa 150 and a Vog 260 before I moved on, think I know the difference between Chinese and Japanese scooters. Furthermore, the article clearly stated Honda may just be taking a year off in the US due to overstock, same as Suzuki did with the Burgman a couple years ago. Honda has not quit making the 125 or 150.

Superiority... How could anyone make such an ignorant statement.

[Jeff]

1/3 the price because they're 1/3 the quality. The one and only reason Chinese scooters stay running longer than 6 months is because they have Japanese designed engines in them. Everything else about the scooter is crap. I enjoyed my Chinese scooters while I had them because they were dirt cheap to buy, but I never had any illusions about the crappy quality.

[kz1000st]

Superiority... How could anyone make such an ignorant statement.


Easy. Less cost, yes possibly less performance but given equal amounts of care a Chinese scooter will last just as long as any Japanese scooter. I'm running all over my friend's Honda Reflex in terms of mileage. I have 6,000 miles on my 150, he has 5300. As for reliability, John's Majesty is parked right now with no compression. Oh sure after he spends $80 an hour in a shop it will be back.

Taking a year off? Maybe that's how you see it. The SH-150i was doomed from the start. $4500 for a 150cc scooter when next to it are Rebel 250s for hundreds less. Let's see a 150 scooter or a CBR-250? Even a PCX at $3500 when there are Kymcos with bigger engines for less is ridiculous. $2600 Kymco Like 200 for instance, which if my information is correct, is Chinese built.

The big four are playing the same game the British were playing in the 60s. "Once they get tired of little Japanese bikes we'll sell them ours" What happens when the Chinese clone a 400cc Japanese scooter? Game over.

I've said it before. Jim Martin at Rapid Repair preps his Roketas to death before he sells them and customer issues are minimal. Once some Chinese manufacturer sets up a dealer network, ala CF Moto this won't even be worth discussing. As it is, I'll take a Cookees prepped Glory over anything Japan builds. At least I know I won't be stabbed to death for parts prices.

Oh, and one last thing. Honda never really built the GY6. It's an all Chinese design. Look it up. People here are running 20,000 miles on 250s and only replacing consumables for initial purchase prices under $2000. The Reflex, Helix and Big Ruckus all cost $5500 or more the last year they were sold here. Where are they now?

[ce]

Those Burgman riders are an elite corps of effete snobs.

He didn't even warn me about voiding my warranty. Well, I never.

[bigkahuna427]

I have four scoots now and knowing what I know now if someone with no mechanical ability asked me I would say save your money and buy quality. What would be perhaps a simple fix it in a minute issue for many of us is an insurmountable issue for others. Often people are shopping online and comparing apple to oranges but clearly the honda yamaha suzuki stuff is better.... My best scooter I haven't seen run yet and it is beat but it is obviously better quality than the others,,, Kymco.. but I am sure the Jap stuff is better...

I mean if you guys were sending your daughter to college with a scooter knowing if it breaks she has to take it somewhere and you pay would your pick be chinese?

[kz1000st]

I mean if you guys were sending your daughter to college with a scooter knowing if it breaks she has to take it somewhere and you pay would your pick be chinese?

Yes. These little puppies have been trouble free since I got them. My daughter could get the oil changed or valves adjusted at any lawnmower repair shop for a fraction of a Big Four dealer's price. If I sent her with a Chinese scooter, well I've seen the insides of a 50cc model. Overbuilt and well made would be good adjectives to describe them.

[jct842]

for those interested, I was able to get enough compression back in my majesty to run it. what I did was put a good portion of marvel oil in it and got some stuck rings loosened up. I still have the low compression I had to start with. It bothers me in I got a used scooter when I could have easily got the biggest linhai going and still had money left over in stead of the majesty. I think I am going to ride this till the compression is gone then figure on buying a new cyl/piston and just replace them. if the head still has valves that seal I won't touch them. had I not been in such a hurry to get another scooter I would have a white linhai with 4-5 thousand miles on it and not a care in the world. to buy used is always taking a chance, and my advice is buy a new chinese. john

[Smorkle]

Nov 20, 2011 11:18:30 GMT -6 Bashan said:

I doubt there's few Wingers out there that can work on their own bikes either.

I guess I'm one of the few SWingers that can.

I am amazed though at some of the posts I see on the silverwing web site. Simple little things some people send other people to the dealers over. There are quite a few "do it yourself" threads on there, but there's a lot of "if the light bulb goes out take it to the dealer" threads too.

I would say that the mentality towards "do it yourself" draws people to the China scoots. If you go in eyes wide open knowing you'll have to take care of it yourself and you had better be a good mechanic or a good learner tends to draw the crowd like is here at scooter doc: People who like Harbor Freight tools. People who tend towards Honda and Yamaha are people who would rather pay more for reliability (or the idea of it) and want to do less to their bikes: People who wouldn't darken the door of Harbor Freight tools. (LOL) In my case, I just needed the larger displacement to haul my fat arse and my girlfriend on long trips. We like to go off for a weekend ride and be able to keep up with interstate traffic.

I am sad to see Honda getting out of the smaller scoots. Seems odd that they're throwing in the towel and letting china have it. Perhaps they have something else up their sleeves.

[Jeff]

Nov 21, 2011 8:35:46 GMT -6 kz1000st said:

Superiority... How could anyone make such an ignorant statement.


Easy. Less cost, yes possibly less performance but given equal amounts of care a Chinese scooter will last just as long as any Japanese scooter.

Hah hah, if you say so.

Nov 21, 2011 8:35:46 GMT -6 kz1000st said:

I'm running all over my friend's Honda Reflex in terms of mileage. I have 6,000 miles on my 150, he has 5300.

So he doesn't ride as often as you. That's not a valid point. I have over 22k on my B650, so what?

Nov 21, 2011 8:35:46 GMT -6 kz1000st said:

As for reliability, John's Majesty is parked right now with no compression. Oh sure after he spends $80 an hour in a shop it will be back.

I'm not familiar with the issues John has had but it sounds like the previous owner didn't take care of it, as in letting it sit for years. A china scoot would fare better in the same situation? John has the option of fixing it himself or paying a mechanic, same as you or I. You can make the argument that a lawnmower mechanic is qualified to work on the china scoot so therefore it's cheaper to maintain and therefore superior to a japanese scooter with fuel injection but, jeez...

Nov 21, 2011 8:35:46 GMT -6 kz1000st said:

Taking a year off? Maybe that's how you see it. The SH-150i was doomed from the start. $4500 for a 150cc scooter when next to it are Rebel 250s for hundreds less. Let's see a 150 scooter or a CBR-250? Even a PCX at $3500 when there are Kymcos with bigger engines for less is ridiculous. $2600 Kymco Like 200 for instance, which if my information is correct, is Chinese built.

Kymco isn't Chinese. Kymco makes decent scooters, as does SYM.

Nov 21, 2011 8:35:46 GMT -6 kz1000st said:

What happens when the Chinese clone a 400cc Japanese scooter? Game over.

Roketa has been advertising a 400cc scoot for about 4 years now. Don't have the engineering skills to make it work or bring it to market yet. Give them a few more years and they will. It will be 1/3 the price and 1/3 the quality.

Nov 21, 2011 8:35:46 GMT -6 kz1000st said:

I've said it before. Jim Martin at Rapid Repair preps his Roketas to death before he sells them...

Yes, he has to because the manufacturer doesn't care.

Nov 21, 2011 8:35:46 GMT -6 kz1000st said:

Oh, and one last thing. Honda never really built the GY6. It's an all Chinese design. Look it up.

There's a tiny bit of debate as to whether Honda or Suzuki or some other company designed the gy6 but there is no question as to who perfected it and made it as reliable as it is. There is also no question that the Chinese copied that successful design.

Nov 21, 2011 8:35:46 GMT -6 kz1000st said:

People here are running 20,000 miles on 250s and only replacing consumables for initial purchase prices under $2000. The Reflex, Helix and Big Ruckus all cost $5500 or more the last year they were sold here. Where are they now?

There's a handful of people that get 20k out of a China scoot. I put 5k on my 260 before I even did a PDI, though it turned out that PDI was long overdue. Why are you asking where the Honda scooters are now? They're still on road and have been a very long time. The china scoots are out in the back yard rusting or on craigs list for parts.

I've looked at your posts and you seem to have a big chip on your shoulder regarding scooter prices. If it's not Chinese it's overpriced. I've always thought Vespa's were overpriced and they probably are but I don't make it a mission to tell everyone. The only thing that made me respond to the original post was the nonsense that Chinese scooters are actually superior. You lost all credibility with that.