. By rosiemoto (Read 11,537 times)

[rosiemoto]

Dec 20, 2015 18:47:11 GMT -6 Alleyoop said:

lol, maybe... I have been everywhere researching on variators and weights and how they affect things. Especially YouTube so I can SEE it. But no, actually you made me say 9g.   Because I was guesstimating I should have 8g ROLLERS because of my low revs with the stock 13g ROLLERS(+Koso variator), and then you said to convert it 1g higher when moving to SLIDERS, so that makes 9g sliders... right? What...  why are you looking at me funny!... yeah honestly I thought it sounded pretty light.

So then I should get the 12g SLIDERS, right? Not my crazy 9g?  I am so ready to order them, but I want to make sure with you first. 

From what I'm seeing when watching comparison videos, the sliders don't suddenly run out of gearing (at ~43mph) like the rollers do. If I understand right, that means accelerating up to something like 50mph or 55mph then backing off the throttle to cruise will lower the RPM? (how much depending on throttle position/wind/etc) . Then going WOT will create a downshifting effect? ...if putting in sliders makes all this happen for me then this is the secret ingredient I've been looking for! Sounds to me like sliders has the best of both worlds...low cruising RPM, high accelerating RPM...just overall more "dynamic."

I'm thinking maybe this is why putting in the Koso variator made no difference in my top end, because I've been using rollers and they just have that stubborn 43mph gearing limit regardless of the variator. The sliders would allow the belt to go further and further up, and I guess with the stock variator it'll eventually hit a limit and that's where the Koso variator comes in with its extra space for the belt to go even higher. I think I got it!?

[rosiemoto]

Alleyoop, I believe I may have guessed right about my stock fan being smaller than the Koso variator. Take a look:

[Alleyoop]

www.scooterdomain.com/fig-12-part-no-02-gy6-cvt-variator-pulley-fan-side-125-150cc-by-no-gy6120002.html

[rosiemoto]

Thank you.

I just put in the 12g sliders into the Koso variator and it's WOT at 5500 rpm. Will putting in this bigger variator fan fix this? I want ~7000 rpm WOT and ~5000rpm cruise like you've been saying.

I managed to hit 63 indicated mph now with the sliders. 2mph faster than my record. I was at 7300rpm@63mph I think.

[Alleyoop]

Excellent 7300 rpms and great top end!! Most would give their right arm to get their 150 rides to run like that with just tuning the CVT!! I think you have reached the max the CVT will give you. Anything more will require taller gears and or more displacement for more ponies.
Alleyoop

[rosiemoto]

Then you're saying there's no point to buy the matching fan size? I thought you said before that I should match those, as the belt can only go as high as the smallest of the two.

I bought the sliders thinking it would fix the low revving problem that the Koso variator caused, but it's revving the same with better top end. WOT acceleration feels very weak until 43mph where it climbs rpms. You thought I was crazy when I said 9g sliders... I'm telling you this Koso variator is strange.

I noticed my new belt seems to be getting wear on the top edges, as in the writing at the edges has almost worn off. Not sure if that relates at all.

[rosiemoto]

New problem after 3 rides!

This is currently with 12g SLIDERS, Koso 115mm variator, stock face plate (fan) smaller than variator(!)

Symptom: Bike takes off very rough at 2000rpm, huge bogging. WOT accelerates at 5000rpm. Everything after 45mph feels normal and good top speed indicated 62-63 mph at 7200rpm. Everything under 45mph is sluggish.

EDIT: okay, took it apart and one of the sliders had turned itself backwards, I'm guessing that's what it was. I put it back together and snapped my variator fan right in half... guess I gotta order that new fan. By the way, I notice every time I put in the Koso variator, the fan has much less space to get onto the ..."crankshaft?" , and it takes a lot of tight turns of the nut to get on.

I'm going to buy a torque wrench so I don't dothis again since I mess with the CVT SO OFTEN. How much torque/ft am I supposed to give a variator 17mm nut? I guess using my leg on a breaker bar was too much.

[Alleyoop]

If it is bogging you need to adjust your carbs Fuel Ratio Mixture which could be why your rpms are so low. Its not an AIR leak otherwise it would also happen at higher mph and rpms.
Print this out and have it handy when adjusting carb. Which variator do you have on there if its the OEM with the cooling cuts out the belt is reaching there and is eating your belt.

HAHAHA, one of the weights had turned itself backwards, I DON'T THINK SO I think it was a user error

Whenever changing the weights you MUST HOLD THE VARIATOR as one PIECE AND SLIP IT ON THE SHAFT ALL THE WAY BACK. Holding the entir Variator as one piece will HOLD the WEIGHTS in place and not allow the Variator to move out which can cause the weights to get out of position.

Alleyoop
scooterdoc.proboards.com/thread/1499/4ts-carb-tuning

[rosiemoto]

I don't have the RPM issue with the stock variator at all; it'll happily rev to 6-7k with the stock 13g rollers. Is it possible it's just a fake Koso or something? Something is definitely off because this Koso variator is not acting at all how you and some others say it should. It seems to be hit or miss when I read people's experience because some say the Koso is great, and others experienced it like I have and it revs wayyyy too low vs the stock variator.

I notice the Koso takes up more space as I put the fan back in, or in other words the fan almost doesn't fit, and as I tighten the 17mm nut, it's basically forcing the fan back in there. It doesn't do this with the stock variator. Basically I can hand tighten with stock variator and then torque it. Can't hand tighten with the Koso variator.

Now to figure out how to get the 17mm nut off when I only have half a fan plate left...

Just ordered the new fan plate you linked me to.

[Alleyoop]

Well you can see that the belt has climbed higher on the koso than on the OEM. You can measure the diameter on all three. On the OEM FAN with the cooling fan it also should be the same size as the 115mm from tip of teeth to teeth diameter wise. The shiny parts tell you where the belt has not climbed.

It could be a fake KOSO I remember some showed that the Variator PLATE was different from one KOSO to another.
Alleyoop

[rosiemoto]

Here's what the Koso variator looks like from the side

[rosiemoto]

For your entertainment... the video of when I set my 63mph record not expecting it.

[Alleyoop]

Great!! However you have it setup LEAVE it be the scooter moves out smartly.
Ride Safe
Alleyoop

[rosiemoto]

Question! Someone today brought to my attention that my belt is hanging off the edge of the variator boss. I noticed it before but didn't think much of it. The Koso makes the belt hang off even more. Is it supposed to be that way? I made an illustration of the differences I noticed between the 2 variators.



More results, and more soon to come!

12gram cheap $9 SLIDERS, stock variator, stock variator fan (the smaller version where the fans go past the faceplate):
Takeoff WOT goes to 6700RPM (acceleration feels FAST)
Cruise 40mph @ 5400RPM
60mph WOT @ 7100rpm (pretty sure it could have gone faster; I backed off when it hit 60)

[rosiemoto]

I bought a torque wrench and torqued the 17mm variator nut to somewhere around 20-25ftlbs. I'm so afraid of breaking the variator fan again. It's staying on but I really don't know how tight it should be.

Koso variator with 12g sliders results coming soon. This time without a reversed slider.