. By rosiemoto (Read 11,493 times)

[rosiemoto]

I took the belt to 2 local shops that sell Gates stuff, to compare them with their genuine belt. Unfortunately neither of them had one in stock, but they all seemed to think it was a good belt and thought it was real even though I kept telling them about the signs of it being fake according to an online picture. One guy never heard of a scooter using a Gates Powerlink belt. I'm waiting on the one I ordered from Amazon to compare this belt with. I'm really not sure what to think...

[Alleyoop]

Here are FOUR POWERLINK BELTS there are two real ones and two fakes:
Alleyoop

GATES_1
www.racingplanetusa.com/drive-belt-gates-powerlink-standard-p-162502-1.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=google_merchant_us&utm_campaign=google_products_us&gclid=CjwKEAiA9uaxBRDYr4_hrtC3tW8SJAD6UU8GdhjWcDO3zmRNu0q59ktZqIrMzcSwz86HemcZSHhiLBoCCOjw_wcB#.

GATES_2
www.partsforscooters.com/Belt_842-20-30_gates

GATES_3
www.ebay.com/itm/GATES-KEVLAR-DRIVE-BELT-842-20-30-GY6-SCOOTER-TAOTAO-JONWAY-TANK-ENGINE-LONG-/111810618184?hash=item1a086ea348:g:zA0AAOSwgQ9Vz5Tg&vxp=mtr

GATES_4
www.amazon.com/Gates-Powerlink-PL20708-replaces-Standard/dp/B00IDHGWL8


BANDO_1




If you know what to look for like I mentioned it is easy to tell the fakes and the real ones. The Very First is the BRAND REAL ONES COME WITH THE LOGO WRAP PERIOD. Remember it costs money to make the wraps and have the logon and print them. Amazing two shops not having any. I bet if you did not come in with one to compare they would have brought one out for you to sell(HAHA).
Alleyoop

[rosiemoto]

This is the (second) one I ordered from Amazon directly

www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000KK9SZI?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00

Please tell me it's real...

(just remembered, one of the guys measured the teeth on this first eBay belt I got, he said they were spaced 10mm)

[mike932]

amazon does not sell fake stuff (their partners may though).  notice that the fake belt that alleyoop showed you on amazon is only sold by amazon's partners.  amazon itself does not sell it

and amazon bends over backyards to make you happy if you are dissatisfied.

[olivertwisted]

Nov 2, 2015 18:59:05 GMT -6 Alleyoop said:

Also the not fake ones come with the logo wrap on them. Same with the BANDO belts if they don not come with their logo wrap they are fake.
They are made in 3 countries, MEXICO, CHINA and USA. USA has a white thread, China none (black) and Mexico yellow.
Alleyoop

Alleyoop, is the above to say that the fakes or, the authentic s are made in those 3 countries? Thanks

[Alleyoop]

The authentic ones are made in those countries UNFORTUNATELY the fakes are also made there as well
So you have to go by the thread color and the wraps, the color at least tells you where it was made and if it has a wrap you know it is authentic. Also pay close attention to the wraps as well they also fake those out as well. But most do not bother making fake wraps due to cost of making them so they sell the fake belts without a wrap.
Alleyoop

[olivertwisted]

Lol! Gotchya, thank you!

[rosiemoto]

Well, I received the Gates belt from Amazon themself today and guess what, it's the same thing as the eBay one I got, except with a sleeve. They both seem to have the same teeth spacing, and same writing and colors. Also there's no "made in china" or anything past where my hand is on the upper right picture, on either of them.

[mike932]

The plot thickens.  The lesson I learned from this thread is just to buy the cheapest belt and replace it often.  

[rosiemoto]

Just got the new rollers in! I cleaned out the whole variator with soap and water, dried, then I put in 15g rollers, which is 2 grams heavier than the original 13g. I took a test ride and the difference is a little more subtle than I was hoping for, lowered maybe 300 RPM I'm guessing, but not sure. I was expecting 1,000 RPM difference... I'll ride again tomorrow, record and compare all the results from before everything to now, and post it for anyone curious!

Out of all this, I managed to lose 2 or 3 CVT case screws. Is there a new set of them I can just order? The ones that are in right now are all varying lengths...so confusing!

[richardv]

Hoping thing work out well. Please do let us know what you find. I've never owned a scooter and am hear to learn before diving in. I have owned many motorcycles but they are different.

[Alleyoop]

You can get a new set of cvt bolts here: Just count them, if the CVT takes 10 bolts you have a long case motor if 8 you have a short case motor.
www.scrappydogscooters.com/125_150_4-STROKE_PARTS.html

Also on the weights 13 to 15 your rpms changed from 1000+ lower. You cannot depend on your ears unless you are very familiar with motors and their sounds. You should get a tach which will help you tune your cvt and motor where you want it.
These are very good tachs register quickly your cheaper ones you can get on ebay lag registering the rpms. Also takes all of five mintues to install and you can use it from one scoot to anoter.

www.trailtech.net/digital-gauges/tto/surface-mount/tach-hour

[rosiemoto]

Nov 21, 2015 11:19:46 GMT -6 Alleyoop said:

You can get a new set of cvt bolts here: Just count them, if the CVT takes 10 bolts you have a long case motor if 8 you have a short case motor.
www.scrappydogscooters.com/125_150_4-STROKE_PARTS.html

Also on the weights 13 to 15 your rpms changed from 1000+ lower. You cannot depend on your ears unless you are very familiar with motors and their sounds. You should get a tach which will help you tune your cvt and motor where you want it.

Thank you, I can really use those! I do have a tach by the way.

Here's my results of everything I've done in this thread, compared before and after in 5mph increments. The MPH/RPM charts are all at cruising speed (holding speed, not accelerating etc). I wasn't able to get all the different speeds from before unfortunately, so there's some gaps, but I think it still shows the differences! I've done a side by side comparison as well halfway down. Thank you to everyone in this thread for all your help, my scooter feels much happier now at all speeds!

New belt & new rollers (15g)

MPH	RPM
25	4200
30	4500
35	5000
40	5300
45	5900
50	6200
55	6800

Thoughts: It's definitely not revving so high and sounds much happier when cruising on side streets. The 2g heavier rollers seemed to lower my RPM by 500-800 all around.


New belt & old rollers (13g)

MPH	RPM
25	5000
30	5400
40	5700
45	6200
50	7000

Thoughts: The new belt didn't seem to make much if any difference at low speed, but once I got over 40mph there was a huge difference in power! Old belt lacked power after 40mph.


Old belt & old rollers (13g)

MPH	RPM
25	5000
35	5700
40	6000
47	7200
60	8000

Thoughts: The old belt was limiting my top speed to 47mph, maybe 50 when lucky, but I once hit 60 shortly before making this thread, SOMEHOW, and RPM was at redline! 


Here's a side by side comparison from old belt + old rollers to new belt + new rollers. Entries with a ? are guess/estimation.

MPH	RPM Old	RPM New
25	5000	4200
35	5700	5000
40	6000	5300
55	7700?	6800
60	8000	7100?

One more thing; RPMs WHEN ACCELERATING at low speed, with new belt + new rollers:

Throttle amount	RPMs
Light (20%)	4800
Light-Medium (35%)	5200
Medium (50%)	5500
Heavy (80%)	5800
WOT (100%)	6000

Thoughts: Not much change at medium to heavy throttle compared to old belt and rollers, but now the lighter throttle doesn't rev it so high which I like! More dynamic.

FINAL THOUGHTS:

- New belt (old belt was going on 6years) and heavier rollers gave me lowered RPM across the whole range. No loss in acceleration from 0-40mph; side by side videos of me doing 0-40 show I get a slightly faster time now. I actually did 85-90% throttle and still beat my old record.

- It still holds constant RPM and doesn't "shift."

- My bike is getting up to speed with much less effort; Light-medium (35%) throttle took me over 40mph from a stoplight, totally surprised me! 

- The lowered RPM makes me not realize how fast I'm actually going; I keep finding myself going 10 over. 

- I'm considering going to 16-17g rollers later on, since the RPMs aren't quite as low as I hoped. I'd like to match how my bike was when it was stock/new... back then it hovered around 4000 RPM on side streets, and heavy acceleration didn't really change RPM but I remember it still pulling strong even at 4k RPM, like high torque? It had a very obvious RPM shift around 15mph, and after that shift, it was almost like it was stuck in gear and would change revs only according to mph, not throttle. It had such a personality that way, but a shop told me something in the variator was malfunctioning. Or, was it just too heavy rollers? I liked it that way... oh well.

My scooter feels pretty happy now overall.

[richardv]

Thank you for all the information. Well written and informative. I would think you could be a quality assurance technician in life.
As I have said I'm currently investigating the purchase of a scooter at this time. Even trying to decide on which size I should start with.
Thanks again,
Richard

P.S. I will consider this report a birthday present. At 3:33am Monday I turn 66.

[Alleyoop]

Heavy acceleration didn't really change RPM but I remember it still pulling strong even at 4k RPM, like high torque? It had a very obvious RPM shift around 15mph, and after that shift, it was almost like it was stuck in gear and would change revs only according to mph, not throttle.

That is the way a well tuned CVT and motor should work. You crank the throttle and it should rev up to around 6K and hold. All this time it is accelerating and when it gets to around 40mph the belt has now reached the max on the pulley. Once this happens(NOW REMEMBER YOU STILL HAVE THE THROTTLE WIDE OPEN) the motor now starts to build more rpms and as the RPMS are climbing you are gaining more speed.

You can test this out and find out if you have your CVT and motor tuned right. If your RPMS climb and drop and climb and drop YOUR WEIGHTS are to heavy. If on the other hand your RPMS CLIMB really high right away then YOUR WEIGHTS are to light.
Alleyoop