. By rosiemoto (Read 11,496 times)

[rosiemoto]

Dec 11, 2015 18:54:36 GMT -6 Alleyoop said:

Wait a minute!! are you doing this while it is on the center stand? 

Yes... it was on center stand. Every time I've done this test for you it's been on center stand... oops.

You talk as if you do not have a tach, the RED LINE is 8000K on the GY6 scoots and you should be able to see the tach as you twist the throttle if your running it on the center stand and or when your riding.

When I was revving it on the center stand, there's 2 dangling wires and I was focused on them to make sure they didn't sway into the variator fan.

WHAT IS THIS ABOUT RATTLING? Where is the rattling coming from?

I'll record a video of the rattling for you soon. I thought for a long time the rattling was the old variator, but it still does it even with the new one. It's a loud rapid "clack" sound that suddenly starts whenever revving over 7000rpm. I think I hear it behind and right of me... it's so loud it's hard to tell. You know what though... it seems like soon as that sound happens is when I can't go any faster...

[Alleyoop]

How about getting those 2 wires taped and zipped tied to something and get them out of the way.
Well if you can get a THIRD hand to hold the throttle or tape the throttle and get a screwdriver and touch the different areas of the motor with the tip, Valve Cover, Bottom of case, CVT by the Variator, by the Clutch etc.. the sound will travel through the tip of the screwdriver to the handle and you will be able to pinpoint the source of the CLACKING. But if it is clacking it may be your valves which would effect performance quite a bit.
Alleyoop

[rosiemoto]

Dec 11, 2015 19:57:20 GMT -6 Alleyoop said:

But if it is clacking it may be your valves which would effect performance quite a bit.

I have a feeling that's what it might be and I believe that was mentioned to me before on these forums. I just watched a video and it doesn't look too hard. What's your opinion on the feeler gauge I should go for on both nuts? One video said 4000th at the exhaust but 3000 at the top.

Also, my new variator is in action on my latest motovlog, and I did some acceleration and top speed tests. I thought you might like to see it:

[Alleyoop]

Scoot appears to run pretty good, I would try 12 gram weights for just a little more UMP starting off and a little more RPMS. Also don't forget your 13 weights already have flat spots.

Concerning your valves set them BOTH to .004 inchs, you can get feeler gauge sets at any auto parts store. But watch the sets some start at .008 which are for your bigger motors on cars and trucks. Or if you have a Harbor Freight around you:
Here is one with the sizes you need.
Alleyoop
www.harborfreight.com/32-piece-sae-metric-feeler-gauge-32214.html

[rosiemoto]

I just came across this older thread with someone who experienced exactly the same thing as me when getting the Koso variator (you're in this thread Alleyoop):

I bought the "Sport Performance Racing Variator for 125 150 Scooter KOSO 115mm" variator on ebay

The first thing I noticed was that it was "geared" differently from my other ones. I had to drastically drop my weights to bring my rpms back up. I went from 13 down to 8 gram rollers that I bought on ebay from scooter-atv parts www.ebay.com/usr/scooter-atvparts

, and it was still running low rpms.


read more: itistheride.boards.net/thread/4860/koso-variators-worth?page=2&scrollTo=77909

I was comparing my old variator and new variator videos I took and it really is a huge drop in RPM. Today I was barely hitting 5000 RPM full throttle with the stock 13g rollers. As my bike goes through its "variator readjustment period," it just keeps getting lower and lower RPMs every few rides. I feel like I'd need 8g or lower rollers to satisfy this variator... what's going on? I feel like might as well go back to stock to get the same effect?

[richardv]

Thanks again for another interesting video. Up here in Cheese Head Land you would get a BIG ticket for driving in the bicycle lane.

And being a bicyclist I would demand it.

[rosiemoto]

I just got the feeler gauges so I can adjust the valve timings, paid $5 at Harbor Freight... was expecting a little less but oh well, beats paying a mechanic to do the adjustment! Is this the right size I should adjust it to?

Dec 16, 2015 6:52:24 GMT -6 richardv said:

Thanks again for another interesting video. Up here in Cheese Head Land you would get a BIG ticket for driving in the bicycle lane.

And being a bicyclist I would demand it.

I guess it wasn't so legal here either from what I hear in the comments. I guess I thought it was okay since I see slow scooters and harleys sometimes doing what I did in the bike lane.

[Alleyoop]

Yes that is the right feeler gauge .004 inchs-.10mm.

Yes on itstheride there where some dudes that no matter what I said would find some way to say or go the opposite and get on my case they just did not have any LOVE FOR ME(HAHA). Finally I had enough and told one guy really off and I no longer post on that forum they can have it.

All I can tell you is I have the KOSO 115mm on mine bought one from TVNACMAN(JOHN) a couple years back. Put it on and I loved it so I ordered another one from JOHN and still have it brand new in the box. Been running with the first one I ordered for over 2 years now and not one single problem. I run 12 gram DR. Pulley sliders and can get up to 7200-7300 rpms out of it. If I put in 11 grams it will climb to 7800, 10 grams over 8K. Never broke or shredded a belt or broke anything in the CVT so I don't know what some of these folks are doing or maybe not doing, like cleaning it out every few thousand miles or so. The dust in there does not help the heat it actually creates more heat and heat is not good for the CVT.
Alleyoop

[rosiemoto]

Some reason I didn't know you were using sliders... okay I think I'm making sense out of this now. I think you mentioned before that sliders need more weight to equal the same RPMs as rollers. So 12g SLIDERS could be like 8g ROLLERS? You've been telling me to go to 12g (did you mean 12g SLIDERS??). I've been assuming you meant 12g ROLLERS so it just hasn't been making sense to me because when I went down from 15g rollers to 13g rollers, it didn't raise it nearly enough. If you meant I should get 12g sliders like you've got, then that makes sense to me now! Because...

---WITH KOSO I get this---
15g rollers: 4800rpm full throttle; 3700 cruise sideroads (25-30mph)
13g rollers: 5000-5300rpm full throttle; 4200 cruise on sideroads (25-30mph)
-----------------------------

***So continuing that ^ trend this is what I would then expect from these sets of rollers and sliders WITH KOSO:
12g rollers: 5200-5600rpm full throttle; 4500 cruise on sideroads (25-30mph)
8g rollers: ~6500rpm full throttle; ~5200 cruise on sideroads (25-30mph) (BACK WHERE I STARTED) <-- me guessing
12g SLIDERS: SOLUTION? ~7000+rpm full throttle; ~4000 cruise sideroads? <-- me TOTALLY guessing; never tried sliders.

I see some generic sliders for around $9 on eBay... is there any huge difference to these vs the Dr Pulley brand? I'd love to save money just in case the 12g sliders are too light/heavy. www.ebay.com/itm/151259819244

[rosiemoto]

Unfortunately I was unable to do my valve adjustment because the bottom right 8mm screw is like impossible to reach even after taking off all the plastic farings and floorboard. I ended up spending like 3 hours out there for nothing... but at least now I know how all the farings hook together. I just need that ONE screw off somehow and I could manage the rest.. so frustrating. Also realized one of my battery screws are stripped.

[Alleyoop]

Sorry I never mentioned Sliders, but you are correct in your theory about rollers and sliders. I must say you are very observant and perceptive and excellent at diagnosing a problem. You and OLIVERTWISTED are the very first persons on the the scooter forums that has good diagnose skills and your still learning and I must add kicking GUYS butts . Mind you it would be a miracle to find a scooter shop with a mechanic that can diagnose a problem on a scooter. I have not run into anyone on the forums that can diagnose a lick you two are the first. You gals are very observant and like me if one can see how something goes together and or works most of the time one can fix it.

I tell people once they find the roller weights they like to get SLIDERS 1 GRAM HEAVIER than the rollers they liked.
Reason is 1 gram heavier will climb a little higher giving you a little more top end with about the same RPMS as the lighter rollers WIN WIN

Yes get the cheap sliders FIRST and then find the grams you like. Once you find the Gram in Sliders
you like you can then Get DR. Pulley Sliders. Dr. Pulley Sliders are made out of different material and last a long time compared to the cheap ones. Due to the way the sliders work and are built it push's the Variator out a little more so you may see a little gain in top end speed as well as smooth ratio transition.
Alleyoop

[rosiemoto]

Dec 19, 2015 16:29:41 GMT -6 Alleyoop said:

I must say you are very observant and excellent at diagnosing a problem.   ...

Thank you! That's a big compliment for me. I'm like that with computers when something bugs me, like if it's acting slow or has a delay after clicking on things, I'll go crazy trying to figure out what's causing it. I usually end up figuring out the cause but not always know a way to fix it, so sometimes I'd go on forums to ask how to fix something very specific and try my best to "keep it in english," but it seems like noone ever knows what I'm talking about lol.

I tell people once they find the roller weights they like to get SLIDERS 1 GRAM HEAVIER than the rollers they liked.

Reason is 1 gram heavier will climb a little higher giving you a little more top end with about the same RPMS as the lighter rollers WIN WIN

I was guessing it would take me to go all the way down to 8g ROLLERS to make mine back to normal (meaning to get 6500rpm WOT)... so are you saying I should try 9g SLIDERS?
Or...
Should I still do the 12g SLIDERS like you said before?

Yes get the cheap sliders FIRST and then find the grams you like. Once you find the Gram in Sliders

you like you can then Get DR. Pulley Sliders. Dr. Pulley Sliders are made out of different material and last a long time compared to the cheap ones. Due to the way the sliders work and are built it push's the Variator out a little more so you may see a little gain in top end speed as well as smooth ratio transition.

Alleyoop

AWESOME, that's what I'll do!

[rosiemoto]

Hang on... do SLIDERS act in reverse for weight? Heavier = more RPM WOT, Lighter = Less RPM WOT?

I ask because I saw a video and the guy said it that way, and I thought to myself he must have said it backwards... but then I saw this comparison video between 14g and 23g on the same bike...

14g sliders: (Lighter, yet LESS revs??)
23g sliders: (Heavier, yet MORE revs??)

[rosiemoto]

One more thing I've been wondering. The Koso variator didn't come with a "fan"... in other words the front piece the 17mm nut is up against. Mine is still the stock fan, so they're mismatched in size... is that a problem at all? I'm wondering since the sliders should ride the belt higher up, it might be too high for the stock fan?

[Alleyoop]

You got it wrong on the videos results, He had 20gram weights and put in 23gram weights and the revs dropped as well as the speed.

Also about the fan if you measure it it is the same size as the 115mm. Remember the belt will ONLY CLIMB as high as the smallest diameter pulley. Think about it right now your fan pulley is much larger than your OEM variator, now did the belt ever climb out (NO). 9 Gram weights! I think your reading posts on ITSTHERIDE
Alleyoop