No start. No anything. By olivertwisted (Read 9,147 times)

[olivertwisted]

I think that you should take all of my pistons for this. LOL!

[Alleyoop]

If the above works and you have spark then what I think is the ACTUAL SWITCH that you move is backwards because it is set at an angle and making contact when in the wrong position.

[olivertwisted]

Feb 29, 2016 21:58:07 GMT -6 Alleyoop said:

OK now splice a ground on the green wire next to the GREEN/WHITE and see if you have SOLENOID.

IF YOU have solenoid then with the KILLSWITCH on RUN see if you have spark.

That gets me solenoid at "Kill" but not at "Run" .

[olivertwisted]

It seems that it isnt the switch because, this has the NEW switches that I got in the mail today yet, the same exact results as the old switches. :/

[Alleyoop]

You know maybe the ACTUAL SWITCH that you move is backwards because that is opposite of how it should work. So it is making contact with the wrong ones. Or what if you try just switching the plugs

[olivertwisted]

I'm willing. Worst case scenario, it just wont work ?

[Alleyoop]

It has to be the switchs that is a very simple setup to operate the SOLENOID. SQUEEZE THE BRAKE KEY ON JUICE GOES TO SOLENOID PUSH THE START BUTTON AND IT SHOULD GO TO GROUND WITH THE SWITCH(pretty simple) the killswitch is something completely different that kills the CDI by GROUNDING THE BLACK/WHITE that is all those switchs do by moving the switch to ground things out or not.

Well it is late and the my brain is SWITCHED OUT right now (HAHA). I will probably be dreaming about this crap tonight and maybe a bulb will light up tomorrow. Or maybe you will find the problem .
Alleyoop

[olivertwisted]

LOL! Ok, Alley. Rest your poor nooodle! I'll try it to see what happens. Thank you !

[olivertwisted]

Didnt work. Daggummit!

[olivertwisted]

Heyyyyyy , what about this alarm system doo doo that's in here? That ties in somewhere to prevent starting on some of these scoots, yes? Though, I never touched the wiring on this during the reconditioning of the bike and, the bike USED TO start up, before the reconditioning. A shot in the dark, I know but, what do I know ?!

EDIT: In any case, I searched on it and found your tutorial on disconnecting it, and did so.

[olivertwisted]

I’ve been going through this thread from the beginning to re-check things. Anything of note that I found, I’m listing here as a recap

1. When I re-checked for voltage at the G/Y at the solenoid harness, my reading was below 12V’s, I got 10.88v’s or so. I’m not sure if that is an issue?

2. Pertaining to your post #36 : When I ground the G/W wire at the back of the start switch, key on, it activates the solenoid, regardless of which position the KILL switch is in.

3. If I’m getting an understanding of how this circuit works (LOL, RIGHT!), when the kill switch is set to “RUN” the contacts should line up to complete and send ground to the START switch by the G/W wire, yes? If so, shouldn’t the G/W and the GREEN from the connector opposite the G/W be in pins directly across from each other, theoretically? I know, you mentioned that before. I’m just running it by you in my own words to see if I am generally starting to “GET” this. AND I’m starting to wonder if ever before I took the switches out during teardown, if the wire perhaps came out and I just THOUGHT I put it back in right and dismissed it or, something.

4.
I was going through the PDF on the KILLSWITCH again too and I get continuity from the killwire at its switch to the CDI HARNESS but do NOT get a reading for GROUND continuity from that harness killwire to the frame, with the killswitch on STOP and the key ON. Since there is a brand new killswitch installed, I doubt it is shorted as the PDF states but wonder if it points us back to bullet point #3 above? Again, perhaps a pin IS in the wrong place ?

5. But GUESS WHAT?! Somehow, we never got around to trying the other toggle switch and I just DID, and it WORKS! So, that G/W wire to the START switch I gather, is not getting good ground to it after all, like you’ve suspected several times!

6. That’s about all I can stand to do right now. It’s 4.30 AM here. I’m eager to hear what you think!

7. Thank you, thank you, thank you again,for SO much help Alley!

[Alleyoop]

Ok dreaming about it last night:

1. With the killswitch on NO RUN it works and you get spark?
QUESTION: did you reconnect the BLACK/WHITE wire back up to the CDI?

IF YOU DID NOT RE-CONNECT the WIRE back up to the CDI then the tests area void.

2. ONE other taught came to me in the DREAM(HAHA), I would think ONE of those GREEN GROUND wires comes from the KEY IGNITION and maybe the KEY IS GROUNDING the KILLWIRE on the ON POSITION.

One way to make the PUSH START BUTTON work is to GROUND the GREEN/WHITE wire since for some reason moveing the killswitch to run is NOT making contact with the green/white and ground even if you manually ground the green wire?

Doing that will not activate the Solenoid unless you squeeze the brakes and push the start button the only difference is the PUSH BUTTON will always be grounded already killswitch off or on.

The important thing is to get spark when you want it AND the solenoid to activate when you squeeze the brakes and push the start button. If the killswitch is in NO RUN it will turn the motor over but it will not start until you switch the KILLSWITCH TO RUN.
Alleyoop

[Alleyoop]

Here is what I would do using the OLD SWITCH AND THINK ABOUT, I WANT IT TO START, I WANT IT TO KILL etc.. You know to KILL the BLACK/WHITE wire needs to be grounded, and the start button needs to be grounded to activate the SOLENOID.

Lay it out open and put the switch in and lay out the wiring when plugged in and see what the switch touchs when moved back and forth. And see which ground touchs which contact and when etc.. OR is one ground common across. Which may be since I see it has a plate going across.

[olivertwisted]

HAHA, yes, I'm sure that you ARE looking at wires and switches, aaaaall night long !

Yes. I just checked for spark again to confirm. I plugged the entire CDI in, Still spark with killswitch on  'Kill" but NO spark on "Run".

It makes sense even to me (Lol, whaaaat?!) that it is a ground problem, by now. I had the toggle still rigged up from last night with its own frame ground and it works. When I have the actual new start switch on there, it wont work UNLESS I touch the separate frame ground to it too.

So, to your comment :
"One way to make the PUSH START BUTTON work is to GROUND the GREEN/WHITE wire since for some reason moveing the killswitch to run is NOT making contact with the green/white and ground even if you manually ground the green wire? "

 If I manually ground the the G/W on EITHER wire on the START push button, it does activate solenoid.
ALSO, if I manually ground the G/W wire at the KILLSWITCH and use the new START button, it activates the Solenoid.

Thank you YES, SEEING something is MUCH easier for me to comprehend . I will take that advice to study the contacts and draw it out on paper while I do, to take my mind through the steps. That IS kind of what I was able to do last night in my mind (A tiny breakthrough) which led me to revisit the/your idea that the pins may be misaligned. But definitely, I learn better, visually. Point, well taken!

To your #2 comment, although I don't know enough to have  the big picture of what will cause what, lol, I was searching last night for info on the key switch to test it and to help me understand any results.

I am still working my way through this thread to re-test this and that, to glean clues and understanding. Also, yours and "Bashans" tutorials and PDFs that I find here on the forum.

So, about your comment :
"One way to make the PUSH START BUTTON work is to GROUND the GREEN/WHITE wire since for some reason moveing the killswitch to run is NOT making contact with the green/white and ground even if you manually ground the green wire?

Doing that will not activate the Solenoid unless you squeeze the brakes and push the start button the only difference is the PUSH BUTTON will always be grounded already killswitch off or on."
  Is that to say that grounding that wire could be a possible permanent workaround in the event that I cannot isolate and fix the issue?

 And to this:
"The important thing is to get spark when you want it AND the solenoid to activate when you squeeze the brakes and push the start button. If the killswitch is in NO RUN it will turn the motor over but it will not start until you switch the KILLSWITCH TO RUN."
    Agreed! Lol! Unfortunately, I'm still only getting spark on the "Kill" position :/

I've got to take care of some serious stuff for my Mother tonight (Bet you could use a rest from this too!, Lol) but I'll check in for any comments as soon as I can. Probably tomorrow.
Thanks , as always!

[Alleyoop]

Doing that will not activate the Solenoid unless you squeeze the brakes and push the start button the only difference is the PUSH BUTTON will always be grounded already killswitch off or on."
Is that to say that grounding that wire could be a possible permanent workaround in the event that I cannot isolate and fix the issue?

YES to your question.

The only thing is WE HAVE TO BE ABLE TO KILL THE MOTOR.

So I would steady the switch OPENED up and with a diagram of the wires as if plugged in or plugged in if you can do that with the switch open and SEE which contacts get touched when moving the switch to RUN and NOT RUN.
Since you said the KILLWIRE you plugged back into the CDI and it sparks when it is in the OFF position. maybe the plugs are just backwards and in NOT RUN position the contacts are touching the g/w and ground. So maybe just turn the pluggs around in the same slot.