Honda elite 150 issue's By bstone026 (Read 5,785 times)

[bstone026]

Hello All, Ok to start this scooter is about 27 years old still looks great and runs great (most) of the time. Now top speed for this gal is supposed to be 65mph, which it used to do but now only achieves around 49mph. Now i know most members on here know lots more about scooter tech than i, so could someone kinda give me an idea of maybe common things that might wear out that would reduce my top end speed. Things I've replaced include new carb, new blue cdi,new orange coil, k&n type filter,new cvt belt, new 15 gram rollers(stock 14). Could a weak main clutch spring cause this problem? Also anything past 3/4 throttle produce no extra power plus i hear popping in the air filter when trying to go full throttle. Rich maybe. thanks brian

[kz1000st]

I know this will sound stupid but have you adjusted the valves? A Ruckus owner on another forum lost top speed and that was why. Also did it lose speed before or after the K & N conversion. You could be running lean and need to re-jet. The same for the roller conversion. Heavier rollers drop RPM and it might need the engine speed to get to top end.

[bstone026]

Took your advice an adjusted the valves, they seemed tight to me so i loosened them a notch. On the elite you turn crank till mark lines up with valve cover mating surface then there's 2 sliders with bolts you adjust on the side of the engine. Seems to have made a difference, would too tight valves cause these symptoms? Also just installed a tachometer that you wrap the wire around spark plug cable so as to better understand engine load at different speeds.

[Alleyoop]

Popping while cranking on the throttle is a very RICH condition and that will cause the motor to loose a lot of power and slow you down quite a bit.
Alleyoop

[kz1000st]

Yes, Valves too tight would cause a loss of compression and power for high speed. The intake hanging open would cause a lean condition and popping in the air filter. Don't play with the carburetor until you do a top speed run. I'm betting the valves were the culprit.

[Bashan]

Good grief, 27 years old??!! What's that in human years? Since it's been around for a while I'm assuming it's got a boatload of miles on it. If so you might want to check the compression. Have you ever checked out the manual for the elite?

[bstone026]

Yeah it's got a 105 main in it now so i will lower the needle a slot or two and report back with results as that should lean it up enough to fix the top end speed i hope

[Alleyoop]

Well a 105 is a nice size jet for the 150s so unless the TEMP changed a lot FROM COLD TO REALLY hot I would also check your AIR FILTER it could be very dirty and that will cause it to run really rich.
Alleyoop

[beachbum]

After sitting for so long you might want to check and see if any little critters built a nest in your exhaust...she might be constipated.

[bstone026]

Ok if the main needle can only be adjusted to compensate between 1/4 to 3/4 that would mean to lean out my full throttle mixture i would have to drop from a 105 to say a 100 which was original stock on the honda elite. My worry is that the original 100 jet also had the air box to restrict airflow a bit but now i have k&N type filter. Could the airflow rates be the same for stock and K&N?
The k&N is oiled also

[bstone026]

Hi again, I just installed a tach on my 150 elite and at about say 50mph its already at 8700rpm's could someone advice me what the redline is on these motors? And possibly tell me why they seem so high at 50mph or what could cause that. Thanks brian

[kz1000st]

Awfully high revs for 50 mph. How many miles on it.Did you check the clutch. Maybe one of the shoes is worn or an engagement arm isn't, uh, engaging. Also is the belt OEM or aftermarket? It might be slipping.

[Alleyoop]

Well unless that puppy is fuel injected and water cooled the 65 mph is not a true figure. Just about any 150 that is carbureated are good for 50-55mph and only very few will reach a TRUE 55mph most will do 50mph and maybe a little over if everything is right on. So the 65 is very optimistic at best. The speedos on the scoots are no where near accurate and will register anywhere from 10 to 20 percent higher than actual speed.

What tach did you put on, a lot of the tachs are not accurate as well at 8700 rpms the motor will be screaming. And I mean screaming for a 4 stroke motor those rpms you can expect out of a 2 stroke motor. So I would first question the TACH because with 15gram rollers the rpms should be way low. Maybe you can take a sound bite at 50 mph so we can hear the motor. I have pretty good ears for motor rpms from many years of experience as well as on my own TRIKE. My Trike came with 10gram rollers and It has a built in tach and it would scream at 8200 rpms put in heavier weights and dropped the rpms to around 7200 and that is with 12gram weights. If I put in 13gram weights it drops the RPMS to 6800-6900.

I also bought a TAO-TAO Tach just to see how it worked well the TAO-TAO registers the same as my Built in Tach up to 1000 rpms and at Idle then after that it registers 300-400RPMS higher than my built in tach. So even today I really do not know the REAL RPMS but I do know when it registers 8000+ the motor is screaming.
Alleyoop

[bstone026]

Ok finally got stranded (temporally) went to the store turned her off came back and she was just spinning fast (low compression)? had to push her to advance auto parts for a jump and it took like 5 min on the starter for it to crank, once running there was quite a bit of blow by smoke fumes coming out of breather. Oh an yes this scoot is water cooled, i hope i just need to re adjust the valves this scoot has like 17,000 miles on it but it is a honda so i expect some reliability out of it. So gonna re-adjust the valves an add lucas oil stabilizer for motorcycles and hope the compression rises enough to crank with more ease. Any suggestions would be very much helpful? Ok my big question when adjusting the valves is it better to stay a little loose or tight when adjusting valves? Ok pulled spark plug out coated with oil and it appears that there is some oil in combustion chamber, (bad piston rings)?

[kz1000st]

More than likely rings but it could also be valve guides or valve guide seals. You should try to stay on the loose side with valves. If you have the same system as other Hondas it's not that hard to adjust. Move the valve adjuster until you feel resistance and then go back 1/2 of a indicator point. You may have lost compression by adjusting the valves warm. The engine has to be stone cold.