Need Electrical Help!! By pryce (Read 3,172 times)

[Alleyoop]

Well some stators do not have a ground wire the ground is the stator itself onto the motor. So if the motor is grounded to the frame and the Battery to the frame it should be good.
Alleyoop

[Alleyoop]

Don't forget the motor mounts are made out of rubber so the motor is not grounded. That is why you have to have a wire from the motor to the frame.
Alleyoop

[Bashan]

If can butt in here a little I have a couple ways to test the R/R that can give you an idea if that's a problem. First lets go back to Alley's diagram. You'll see the R/R and stator grounds. They just go to the frame if you're hard wiring. If you still have connectors for your stator it's probably R W G. Use your continuity function and test the bike side connector G to frame or even the black cable on the battery. If you don't have a continuity tone you'll have to chase the bad connection down.

You'll see on Alley's diagram the yellow and white wire coming out of the stator. This is actually one wire with the yellow "center tapped" into the white. This gives you AC current cycling back and forth in this wire but since the yellow is center tapped it produces less voltage due to fewer coils. It looks like this:

See how the yellow "taps" in the center? Look at the diagram and you'll see that the stator and R/R must be securely grounded. The yellow and white wires must have this to complete their AC waveforms, it's really the same wire split into two AC circuits. The yellow runs some AC lights but the white is dedicated to charging the battery. When both white and yellow are hooked up you can test them by touching a test probe to any spot that's bare along the wire and ground the other probe. You should be around 12v AC on both since they are being regulated. I know we went over this but . If you unhook the white from the R/R and test the voltage it varies from 20 to 40v AC. Plug it back in and do the same to the yellow and it should be around 20v AC. You just tested your stators charging and lighting coils! If those voltages are off you probably need a stator. The R/R shouldn't factor into this test since you unhook it from the wire. Unhook your stator from it's pig and test continuity between the yellow and white; you should have continuity between the white and yellow AND to ground. A three phase has continuity between the supply wires (yellow) but not from the yellows to ground.

OK, the stator yellow and white voltages are OK. You tested the continuity of the green connector spade on the R/R to it's body and it was good? Well you should be getting 13 to 14.5v DC on the red to the battery. Just touch your multi's probes to the battery while at a few RPM.

OK, here's some of my tests that seem to work for me but you don't see in the literature. If your R/R has FLP stamped on it anywhere all bets are off, they are from another universe. The white supplies AC current to the R/R that is used to charge the battery with DC voltage. Diodes are used to do this. I have found you can get a diode reading with most R/Rs for the charging circuit. A diode lets voltage run in only one direction. If you get voltages both ways on this test your R/R is toast. Set your multi to diode testing. You should see this little icon:

This will pass a voltage one way through a diode but if the diode is good it will stop it the other way. So to test the charging aspect of your R/R put the probes of your multi on the red and white spade connectors. You may see a voltage or in this case NADA:

Now swap the leads and the voltage passes, this is probably a good charging circuit:

You can also do this with the resistance function and see if it reads ohms one way but not the other. I have found the diode test is only reliable for the red connector to white connector charging circuit. I have a couple ohms tests I use on the yellow to green connectors. Set your multi to resistance and check ohms from the yellow to green and then swap the leads. The readings should be similar but don't have to be exact:

Those are close enough that I would, with the acceptable charging diagnostic, take this R/R off the table as a culprit for electrical difficulties. If the stator voltages are OK we'd have to start looking at a bad ground, or possible short.

[pryce]

Ok, so from the red to white wire, on the regulator on the diode setting I get .OL. And from the white to red I get .512
From the yellow to green on ohms I get 5.92 mega ohms and from green to yellow I get 5.68 mega ohms. So according to the numbers you gave me, my r/r is ok?

[tvnacman]

Wire the regular this way 1 and 3 yellow and white, then red 2 and 4 green.

Then if it is no good switch yellow and white.

The 4pin I have sell and test are wired as stated above.

John

[pryce]

Ok, so I just discovered, when the R/R is plugged in, and the only other thing plugged in is the auto choke, I'm reading a couple hundred mV. When I unplug the auto choke, it jumps up to 12-14v at idle and when I rev it, the yellow wire goes as high as 100 VAC. Do you think the R/R is bad on the yellow wire circuit?

[tvnacman]

did you try what I suggested ?

John

[pryce]

Yes, and nothing happened. I just got a new regulator and I have absolutely no load on the yellow wire, but it reads 13vAc at idle and up to 60VAC revved up. I am so lost right now.

[pryce]

With the new regulator when I plug it in the way you say, it starts to get quite warm, how hot should it get when operating? But the voltage coming from it is great except for the battery, it is not charging or at least not that I can see

[pryce]

The new regulator when tested as the same set up as the old regulator red to white is OL. Whit to red is .677. Yellow to green 4.05 ohms green to yellow is 4.38 ohms. The logo on top of this one is some weird symbol and SIAN. It's black with a white female connector. Let me know if there is any other info that you need.

[Bashan]

Jan 30, 2014 12:56:57 GMT -6 pryce said:

Ok, so from the red to white wire, on the regulator on the diode setting I get .OL. And from the white to red I get .512
From the yellow to green on ohms I get 5.92 mega ohms and from green to yellow I get 5.68 mega ohms. So according to the numbers you gave me, my r/r is ok?

Not necessarily, if those meter test come back OK it increases the likelihood that your R/R is OK. However it may fail under load. There are no absolutes in diagnosing these problems.

Jan 30, 2014 13:23:59 GMT -6 pryce said:

Ok, so I just discovered, when the R/R is plugged in, and the only other thing plugged in is the auto choke, I'm reading a couple hundred mV. When I unplug the auto choke, it jumps up to 12-14v at idle and when I rev it, the yellow wire goes as high as 100 VAC. Do you think the R/R is bad on the yellow wire circuit?

OK, I'm a little unclear as to what is happening. You have all four wires plugged into the R/R. You say the only other thing plugged in is the choke. You don't mean you unplugged your headlights and other loads did you? Is this the case: when everything is plugged in to the R/R and elsewhere you're getting mA's on the yellow. When you unplug the choke you go from 14v AC to 100v AC with RPM? When testing the R/R you should leave everything hooked up to load test and then pull one wire at a time.

Jan 30, 2014 13:19:09 GMT -6 tvnacman said:

Wire the regular this way 1 and 3 yellow and white, then red 2 and 4 green. Then if it is no good switch yellow and white. The 4pin I have sell and test are wired as stated above. John

Wow, no kidding, I think that's the configuration in the old manuals. However, if he was getting DC out of his red wire that would have to be the present day wire pattern or there wouldn't be DC on that wire.

[tvnacman]

I would start with a known good regulator .

John

[pryce]

I have the regulator plugged in, but since the headlight and all the other lights blew, I haven't plugged them in yet until I can confirm that the voltage will not destroy them again. I tried to plug a light in and it would not light up until the engine was revved up really high.

[pryce]

I'm getting ready to give up on this stator and regulator and just upgrade the stator and regulator... would that make things easier and if so, could someone give me directions to point me in the right direction on where to order all of the correct parts.

[Bashan]

Well, you could order from any of those tile links at the top of the site except HPS motorsports and Megamotor. They all support the no Google ad fund and are reputable.

Did you ever check the voltages on the yellow and white wires unregulated? It could be your stator but what if it isn't? You could sink more bucks into it and then the same thing starts happening. I'd rule the stator in or out. This is how you do it:

If you're testing the yellow run a jumper for the white, and jump the yellow for the white. I also mentioned checking the continuity on the grounds in the stator pigtail, did you ever find anything out there?

One thing that sticks in my cortex is the auto choke. It is supplied off of a split on the yellow. There is no way it should make that much of a difference plugged in or not plugged in. It's a split, you plug it in it draws a little juice you unplug it and no big difference. It makes me think the choke is shorted or you have a bad ground downstream from it. So yeah, NOW the voltage starts running away when the choke is unplugged, if there is a short it may have roasted an otherwise decent R/R. Here's checking the yellow, see, the yellow just splits, it should be able to run plugged in or not:

Might as well do the white:

By the way, your red should not read way low just because the battery is low. It will to some degree but not that much IMO. The charging circuit is regulated also so it will come up to 12v DC at least with some RPMs.

Let's see, you asked if R/Rs get hot. Yeah, they burn off excess electrical energy by turning it into heat. However, these regulators are called shunting regulators. They actually pour juice back into the stator and heat up those coils to dissipate energy. It sounds like your R/R is getting way too hot. Do you have a flywheel puller? You need to pop the flywheel and inspect the stator for roasted coils. Check the continuity on that auto choke also. Get BUSY YOUNG MAN!!