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Post by rob63 on Nov 11, 2015 12:22:04 GMT -6
Thanks for the replies lads  Factory time for replacing the fuel sender on these things is 4 hours Alley. They say you have to drop the motor out completely to get to the sender, however.... The part time chap came in today so we took a step back, joined heads and started from scratch. We thought we`d double check the gauge so I put a positive feed to the grey wire and just by accident the probe earth wire touched the black and white pin. Hey presto the gauge read full. Confusing as the black and white pin already had a good earth to it. We checked continuity of the wires and all was good. We traced the wires back and found a multiplug with a black and a black/white wire deep within the rear frame. I disconnected the plug and joined a piece of wire to both terminals, started the engine and the gauge started reading full. From this we deduced that (as Cyborg pointed out) the sender is knackered. This was an odd find as the resistance specs from the factory for the sender were spot on when checked. We ordered a sender and I set about removing the old one. First step was drain the tank, there is a small tube on the bottom of the tank which when disconnected from the vacuum pump drains the tank completely. Next was remove the air intake hose between the carb and filter box. Then remove the rear shock absorber. Then remove the airbox cover and air filter, once done you remove two 8mm bolts on the front of the box, one 8mm bolt on the rear of the box along with a philips screw holding the box/mudguard to a metal bracket. (all of this is a bit of a squeeze). Pull out the airbox/mudguard. You can now just about access the four sender screws, remove them and then jiggle the sender from the tank. The removal process took about an hour once I`d figured it out, cutting the factory time in half and no need to remove the engine. |
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Post by rob63 on Nov 10, 2015 15:47:24 GMT -6
We`ve got a LML Star 4T automatic in the workshop with a non working fuel gauge. I must admit I`m a bit stumped by this thing, the distributors technical department are about as much use as a chocolate teapot so I`m hoping someone will have a eureka moment on here. There are 2 wires from the fuel level tank sender, one black and one black/white. The black is the dedicated earth for the bikes circuit, the black/white sends the signal regarding the level to the gauge. The main power to the gauge is a grey wire which strangely comes not from a constant positive feed, but from the regulator. With ignition off all three wires on gauge are earthed, with ignition on all three are still earthed. Once scoot is started the grey wire provides power but this is where it gets odd. If I connect a multimeter, red probe to grey wire and black probe to earth, I get a negative voltage reading, whereas you`d think it would be +12v. If I connect the black probe to the positive battery terminal I get a positive reading, peculiar ? If I use a power probe and touch a positive feed to the grey wire on the gauge nothing happens, if I disconnect the grey wire and touch positive to the connector on the gauge the needle moves a gnats whisker, and that`s with a full tank of fuel. I have replaced the gauge as I thought it could be knackered but it hasn`t made a difference. Any thoughts please ? Here`s the wiring diagram....  |
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Post by rob63 on Nov 30, 2014 14:16:03 GMT -6
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Post by rob63 on Sept 4, 2014 11:10:21 GMT -6
Yes it would buddy, only a small island |
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Post by rob63 on Sept 3, 2014 10:00:55 GMT -6
Popped a new cdi unit on today, bike started first time, left it running for half an hour and no problems.
Normally the cdi units I`ve come across have failed completely, no hiccups or odd running. I can only think that this one had a dodgy earth short to the kill wire which gave a weak spark now and then.
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Post by rob63 on Sept 1, 2014 11:33:41 GMT -6
I had a brief look at this one today and got a number off the cdi. Sutai A1A-CDI, A1A-9100, K20Z3.
I noticed that the kill wire when plugged in to the cdi has an earth even with ignition off. If I unplug the 2 pin plug then the kill wire works as normal ie: earth with ignition off and no reading with ignition on. Which makes me think that there is a short inside the cdi.
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Post by rob63 on Aug 29, 2014 12:08:46 GMT -6
Thanks for the replies lads. Bashan, the module is a sliding switch which is simple anti theft device, we have a little plug which bypasses it to test the circuits. Cyborg, I`ve checked the wires and terminals and get good continuity so I think that side is good as far as I can tell. I did wonder if it was an internal problem with the cdi from the start, as the black 12v feed wire showed positive when ignition on, but when the scoot started running rough the black wire had a positive/negative pulse on it which would then change back to a positive when the scoot sorted itself. A possible short inside the cdi ? I`m now wondering if the black wire controls some sort of ignition advance circuit inside the cdi, if faulty it would explain the inability for the engine to rev up ? Alley I`ll try and get the numbers off it |
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Post by rob63 on Aug 28, 2014 13:02:49 GMT -6
Hi all, I have a problem at work with a Sym Mio 50, the fault is intermittent and will sometimes run fine then suddenly run rough with an inability to rev up. At first I looked at fuel problems but to no avail. I eventually got to the cdi and whilst touching the terminals the bike would come back to normal then go back to rough. Today I lost all spark completely. When I looked closely at the cdi I noticed it has a different pin arrangement and an extra wire. Here`s a normal AC cdi....  And here`s the Sym cdi....  As you can see most of the pins/colours are the same and seem to perform their standard duties except the two left wires. The blue/yellow is still the trigger wire but is now on the Green/ground (2) pin, and at the top where the blue/yellow normally sits there is a plain black wire which is a 12v feed from the ignition switch. Does anyone know why there is a DC feed to an AC cdi unit. Sym has a habit of fiddling with their parts so that aftermarket parts won`t fit so I put the different pin positions down to that, but the black wire has me stumped. If this cdi is duff then I`m wondering if I can fit a normal cdi in it place by moving the blue/yellow wire back to it`s standard position and ditching the black 12v feed. Any thoughts please ? |
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Post by rob63 on Apr 6, 2014 6:24:15 GMT -6
Cheers Alley. We eventually changed the loom on this one, still no joy. Tried the new ignition switch as well and everything worked. So I`m thinking it was a connection problem either on the earths or on the multiplug for the ignition switch.
We did clean the earths and all the loom connectors previously but who knows, just glad it`s working again and back on the fleet.
If anyone has a wiring diagram for a Sym Jet4 125cc it would be useful, Sym don`t seem to include one in their manuals.
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Post by rob63 on Apr 3, 2014 15:09:04 GMT -6
I took some values in ohms and voltage off the stator and cdi, but left my notes at work. I`m hoping to spend a lot more time on it tomorrow.
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Post by rob63 on Apr 3, 2014 10:55:40 GMT -6
Cheers lads, I had a quick look at the forum this morning then went to work. I`m not sure why I thought it was a 2 wire pick up, of course the red/black is the power to the cdi.
Unfortunately I was busy all day so only managed 1/2 hour on this scoot, looks like the kill wire is showing earth with the ignition switch in both the on and off positions so I`m suspecting that`s where my 'no spark' problem stems from. I tried another ignition switch, stator, and cdi to no avail, so looks like I`ve got a short somewhere in the loom maybe. I even snipped the kill wire but it didn`t make a difference.
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Post by rob63 on Apr 2, 2014 13:24:38 GMT -6
I should know this and I`m kicking myself at the moment.
Our Sym fleet has the normal 3 wire multiplug from the stator for lighting and earth wires. But there are two separate wires from the pickup, one is obviously the trigger, what is the other one ? Is it a + feed to the pickup ?
This is an AC system with a 6 wire cdi, but no killswitch so I`m presuming the kill wire goes to the ignition switch which shows earth with the switch off. Should it be dead with the switch on or show + ?
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Post by rob63 on Mar 25, 2014 14:26:25 GMT -6
If it hasn`t had the derestrictions removed then it would only top about 30mph on the flat and about 23mph up a decent gradient.
The most common restrictions are a nylon washer about 4mm thick between the variator halves. You`d need to remove the belt cover then undo the nut holding the outer variator wheel on. The washer should be visible sat on the variator collar. Remove it and put things back together.
The other restriction is normally a branch pipe part way down the exhaust downpipe (about 6 inches from where the exhaust joins the cylinder). This normally leads to a weird emissions system which has a hose going to atmosphere. Cut the pipe about an inch from the downpipe and crimp it on the downpipe side( a line of weld also helps seal it) and get rid of anything which you cut off.
One other thing could be a pink wire on the cdi, this can normally be disconnected from a bullet connector.
The smoke is worrying and as Alley said would be due to excessive oil. It could be old oil sat in the crankcase or even in the exhaust. Once you`ve set the carb up and cleaned the air filter, take it for a spin to see if it clears. Don`t let it idle as it won`t help at all.
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Post by rob63 on Mar 23, 2014 7:40:36 GMT -6
Can you post a picture of the damaged caseing ? As it`s cracked, even though there is no oil leakage at the moment, as soon as the engine starts then oil might start to seep out which won`t be good. If the crack doesn`t leak, then you can leave the kickstart mechanism off, and just rely on the electric start.
As for the battery, have you got a multimeter ? If not then buy one, they`re cheap enough. Put the red lead from the meter on the positive terminal of the battery and the black lead on the negative terminal. Start the engine and tell us what voltage reading you are getting. It should be about 13-14.5 volts.
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Post by rob63 on Mar 23, 2014 3:55:21 GMT -6
I`ve got a feeling that you connect the pink into the off/side/head switch so that when the switch is off the voltage from the yellow has somewhere to go. A simpler option is to splice the pink wire directly into the yellow before it gets to the switch and it`ll do the same job.
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