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Post by jstluise on Jun 2, 2012 10:59:20 GMT -6
The ballast resistor is just extra load it will pull the charging voltage down . when I was going through what your going through . I gave up and changed out to 11pole stator and 7pin regulator . Its clear to me you see electric , have you seen the diagram of the seven pin regulator . The black wire is feed back and senses system voltage and auto adjusts voltage output . If you would like to try the ballast resistor , the cheapest route I have them . I also have the 11pole and seven set up . How was vacation ? John That's what I thought the ballast resistor would do. Sounds like that would be the cheapest route, but it feels kind of like a band aid to me. Are there different sizes of resistors, which depend on how much you need to pull the voltage down? The 11 pole setup has appealed to me since I bought the scooter; I shouldn't have a problem powering all the stock lights + my 35W auxiliary light (right?). Can you send me some info on the 11 + 7 setup? From what I understand, the components to buy are the R/R, stator, and flywheel? I'll look around for a write-up about it. Vacation was great! Can't beat Hawaii when I'm dealing with this Seattle weather all the time
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Post by jstluise on May 31, 2012 10:07:39 GMT -6
Well if the Regulator/Rectifier is putting out over 15VDC it is BAD it will FRY your battery. Should be under 15Vdc usually a good one will put out around 14.5 or in the 13s. Alleyoop Right. This is bad. But, the good part is that it is regulated...just high. Everything else looks good, too (ie the AC voltage). So, I just need to get that regulated voltage down. I will be on the two other R/Rs I have and see what they put out.
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Post by jstluise on May 30, 2012 22:30:13 GMT -6
- Try the following test, hook your multi up as in the diagram and tell us the milliamps you get with the key off:
Okay, I am determined to get this problem figured out. Been pretty busy so haven't had a chance to troubleshoot. I performed the suggested test. With the key off, I get zero current (open circuit). I believe this is good. I hooked everything up again (w/ battery and replacement R/R). I got 16.2-16.8 VDC at the battery (red wire) and 11.8-12.2 VAC (yellow wire) at varying RPMS. Its been a while since I've worked on this, but it seems like that is okay, even thought he DC voltage is a little high...at least it is regulated. Not sure what else there is to test...
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Post by jstluise on May 23, 2012 9:31:45 GMT -6
Here is a resistance chart I made of a good FLP regulator . In order to get the readings I got you must use a meter that will read high resistance . If your meter will not read at least 100M ohms you will not be able to read the regulator . i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc483/tvnacman/IMAG0167.jpgI have an older version of the 4pin regulator and a balast resistor . John I have access to a better DMM at work, so I took some measurements of the original and replacement R/R I got. I believe I got the correct orientation of the pins. i.imgur.com/BPlcw.jpgThey look comparable (I guess, in the relative sense). Not sure how to interpret the measurements. Can you explain the ballast resistor?
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Post by jstluise on May 12, 2012 15:43:24 GMT -6
Thank you everyone for the help! This forum is awesome!
I am leaving for vacation and will be gone for a week...I will try all of your recommendations when I return and post with some updates. Hopefully we'll get this figured out soon.
Thanks again!
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Post by jstluise on May 11, 2012 9:29:46 GMT -6
The diodes in the regulator maybe shorted as a result of the bad flasher. You need to keep the bad flasher out of the system and you need a good battery connected. Then check the system again. The battery acts as a filter/capacitor to smooth the ripple . I have a new battery. I'll connect it and re test. So are you never suppose to run without a battery in? I have measured the resistances between all pins on the R/R, and they all show open (infinite). I'm never suppose to have AC voltage on the charging wire (red), so it has to be the regulator, right? Hmmm...
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Post by jstluise on May 11, 2012 0:20:36 GMT -6
I just got done with some testing. I removed the faulty flasher relay and did everything without a battery installed. The flasher relay must have been shorting the system because removing it changed everything. I did check for continuity on the stator (white and yellow wire) and there is continuity. Got about 1 ohm. · Take the white wire off of the R/R, set your multi to AC voltage and hook one probe up to the white wire and ground the other. Start the scooter and give it some RPMs, you should get about 20v AC. If all your grounds and wires are good then you have a bad stator. Reattach the white to the R/R. · Do the same to the yellow and you should get about 15v AC. If not, you have a bad stator. See this post until after the test...I will do this next time. I got ~12VAC at idle and up to 14VAC at a high rev. Is this range good? Got about the same; 12-14VAC. So, for this test I was only getting 6.5-8VDC, depending on the revs. Not good. Now the odd part: I switch to VAC and got ~14VAC (at idle) on the red wire (which goes to the battery). What?! I did all these tests with my original R/R and the replacement R/R; all results were identical. Also, I should note that no lights (well, just the small instrument panel lights) are running off the AC during testing (my tail light is blown and I had the headlight removed).
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Post by jstluise on May 10, 2012 20:15:28 GMT -6
I read your post, it wasn't that long, no worries. It sure sounds like that extra light roasted the R/R. However, if you're sure you have the right R/R replacement then it must be the stator even though the voltages are OK...it happens. Can you unplug the stator and check continuity between the yellow and white wires just for the hell of it? Rich I don't know how much more sure I can be about getting the right R/R, unless, like you said, Kymco is a special breed. Using my DMM I could get a forward voltage drop reading using the diode function only on one set of particular pins; both replacements I have matched, and the drop on the original R/R was a little higher...but I can say they all behaved the same as far as only getting a drop across a specific set of pins. I'm not sure where the stator plug is (I think I have to remove some of the body), but looking at the wiring diagram I can isolate the stator by unplugging the R/R and unplugging one of the main wiring harness plugs. This is how I checked the charging and lighting coil resistances. I will check the continuity between the two stator wires and report back. Do you know what the current rating on the R/R is? Attachments:
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Post by jstluise on May 10, 2012 10:50:50 GMT -6
We've pretty much determined here on the forum that those resistance tests on R/Rs are useless. Those charts are from the old manuals and to make a long story short, they don't make 'em like they used to. Each manufacturer of R/Rs uses different components to acheive the same functionality so they all test out different. A lot of them have circuits that won't let you get a test at all, as you've discovered.
I'll do some research on your bike and see what I can come up with. So what's the history on this, it was charging fine and then boom, roasted your battery? Or did you change something and it happened? Rich Good to know. So for the history: Everything was going good until my battery started to become weaker and weaker. Had to kick start it on several occasions. The battery was new when I bought the scoot from the PO (about a year ago), so I thought maybe I wasn't getting a good charging voltage. After checking the VDC I found it to be high and unregulated (16-20VDC). So, basically my battery was being constantly overcharged until it gave out. I drove it almost every day for about 6 months after I got it, then it mostly sat for 3 months (driven 3-4 times/month). Started riding it again and then discovered this problem. I did experiment with adding an auxiliary light (35W) in addition to my main headlight (35W). I remember measuring the VDC to see the drop before and after I added the light. If I remember right, the charging voltage was around 12.5VDC stock (w/o adding the light). It definitely wasn't above 13VDC. I ran the light for a few rides, but took it off after my charging system couldn't handle it (battery was being drained after riding with it). Not sure if that little amount of testing triggered my issue. Regardless, I think something was up since my charging voltage was low and not closer to 14.4VDC. On the same note, right after buying the scoot I noticed my starter didn't have the oomph that it normally had, especially if the motor was on the compression stroke; there would be a slight hesitation as the starter overcame the extra force. It never got worse and never had a problem with it not starting, so I didn't think much about it. When I put in a fully (bench) charged battery, the starter had A LOT of power. So, I think my battery wasn't getting charged fully due to the low charging voltage. I drove it for quite a while after I played with the auxiliary light, so I can't say if the problem started right after that. Sorry for the long message...trying to remember as many details as I can.
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Post by jstluise on May 9, 2012 15:53:27 GMT -6
Those stator voltages are good. Are you sure you have the right R/R? That 8 volts should be about 12. Kymcos are a different breed, there might be another component in the mix that needs a specific Kymco regulator. Rich Hmm, I guess I just though a 152QMI (125cc GY6) was used all around...didn't think there would be any differences. Looked into getting a Kymco R/R, but the local dealer wanted over $80. I picked two up on eBay for $8. I get the same results with my original R/R and the replacement R/R. As far as the 8VAC, I think this is all I've had since I've owned the scoot (bought it with 600km, has 8000km now), based on the brightness of the lights. I never did measure it though. Heck, I just found out a couple weeks ago that some stuff actually runs on AC! Oh, and this leads into another question/problem I have. In my Kymco FSM, there is a testing procedure for the R/R where you measure the resistances between certain leads on the R/R. I can't get any resistance readings on my original or replacement R/R. This is a simple resistance test, so I can't see myself screwing it up. Any idea on what's up? Couldn't really find anything online about doing this sort of test.
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Post by jstluise on May 9, 2012 10:56:25 GMT -6
Thanks everyone for the responses. Finally a forum where I don't have to wait a week to get a response!
Alleyoop, I thought the relay might be toast. Didn't really think about removing it when I was troubleshooting. I don't see how it could be causing my main problem, but who knows... I was planning on getting an electronic flasher relay (load-independent) so I can switch out my turn signals to LEDs. I guess now is the time.
tvnacman, I threw around the idea of upgrading to the 11 pole stator, especially since I want to run a 35W auxiliary light in addition to my main headlight. But, for now I just want to get it back up and running...I've been without it for 3 weeks. The flasher is a 3-wire.
Bashan, I did perform this check. At an idle, my lighting coil put out around 18 VAC and my charging coil put out around 22 VAC. They increased with RPM, but I went easy because I didn't want to blow any of my lights out (I did blow my tail light, though). I couldn't find any specs on what they should be...what VAC should I expect from each coil?
With my regulator plugged in, I get around 8 VAC on my lighting wire (yellow wire). These seems about normal based on the brightness of the lights running on AC. Shouldn't this be closer to 12 VAC? Maybe this is why my headlight has seemed so dim. It's been like that since I got the scoot.
When I get home, the first thing I will do is remove my flasher relay and try everything out again. I doubt it could be causing my problem (I think it is more of a result of the problem), but it's worth a shot.
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Post by jstluise on May 8, 2012 23:55:33 GMT -6
I have a Kymco Agility 125 (125cc GY6). I'll try to keep this short...
My original problem was an unregulated and high charging voltage (~17-20VDC). My battery was fried because of this. My initial thought was a bad regulator.
I picked up two replacement regulators off eBay (specified for the 152QMI engine) and neither of them solved the problem.
I checked my charging coil and lighting coil resistances for the stator and they are right at the upper end of the spec in the FSM. So I think I am good there.
I really don't know what else to test.
One thing I found odd is that my blinker relay is buzzing and making funny noises (not a normal sound) when the DC voltage is high. Looking at the wiring diagram, I don't see how the blinker relay can do anything when the blinker switch is off. And I don't see how this could be causing my problem, but it is weird.
I'm really at a loss and was hoping someone can shed some light on this.
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