Clinician
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Post by case on Jul 7, 2013 8:11:18 GMT -6
If you have the airbox exposed or open and you are spraying starter fliud in the filter and it wont fire at all, chances are you arent getting a hottt enough spark. Turn the lights down low...doo dee daa and really watch the spark....is it powerful and fast and blue? Thes scooters man , they will throw a spark and fool you into thinking its sparking when its just trying. I would clip the b/w wire to the cdi just for testing purposes. always use starting fliud and always use a jumppack you may not be getting the full 12 volts. I have a scooter here that wont fire unless it is attached to a fully charged jump box good luck bro
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Clinician
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Post by case on Jul 6, 2013 18:02:40 GMT -6
it does sound like a really loose rocker arm, maybe the engine jumped time? does it have power at all? does it sound the same on startup? press your finger on the spark plug hole and crank over engine to check for compression first or feel it with your hand on the kikstarter does it hiss and is ahrd to push?
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Clinician
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Post by case on Jul 6, 2013 16:32:47 GMT -6
Cool.
i thought i was crazy when i tried to put my new head on and the valves did not meet the rocker arms. I guess I have a 64mm head and 69mm rocker arms. what is the difference between the 2 valve elnghts as far as perormance and how much are rocker arms thankz
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Clinician
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Post by case on Jul 6, 2013 10:41:22 GMT -6
OK read this carefully as it contains some important notes; I ran the bike without the shroud as i didnt have it at the time, for a test ride. BAD MOVE it got real hot. This led to the brand new performance? cdi being burnt out on SOME level. You can fashion a fakie enricher by making the pin stay in the hole by rigging it, i used electrical tape to cover the hole on the enricher and dropped the pin inside the carb and sealed it, no more choke. I did an "icebag" test where i iced the cdi to see if it helped with nperformance when hot. It did. the bike fired and ran no problem with the cdi iced. with the ice removed, it immmediately stopped firing. (or fired weaker) I compared two sparks from 2 different atm-50s to compare spark. one had a super fast blue when hot and the other had a slow orange intermittent spark. changed out cdi's and it runs nor problem. In conclusion, do the "ice test" on your cdi to see if it will run better it will eventually cut out even with the ice, but you can see the difference big time with the ice CASE CLOSED THANKS GUYS!!!!!!!! ;D ;D ;D
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Clinician
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Post by case on Jul 6, 2013 8:06:19 GMT -6
I am still confused about the enrichers ,,so I made one that sticks out permanently....This way I can use it as a testing tool to see if the "choke" is stuck on scooters....I dont think the enricher is the problem. After some research, i think the cdi or coil is sending a weak spark after it heats up.....the engine did get real hot ona test ride and i think it may have fried something electrical, because it starts and runs perfectly until it reaches that magic temp and bam wont run.......I will ice down the coil and cdi to see. If I spray starting fliud on the filter when its hot, it still wont run or fire, so Im thinking its not fuel starvation. too rich like you said Alleyoop, or maybe cdi/coil
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Clinician
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Post by case on Jul 6, 2013 7:57:20 GMT -6
Mine did the exact same thing after the rain thread NO SPARK NIGHTMARE.... read it if you get time.....there is usually a 4 way diode inside of ignition keyswitch ......the only way to know is to tear it apart or test with another IMO. Attached, mine looked fine but did not work after rain.....after i tore it aprt and rewired it, it ran fine (the keyswitch) Spray the keyswitch with some wd-40 and turn it back and forth a few times to try to clear and clean it. the keyswitch where you put the key.....concentrate on that good luck
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Clinician
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Post by case on Jul 5, 2013 20:39:18 GMT -6
Tke the head back off. Then remove your plastic fan cover on right side (dur) then grab the chain with right hand and move the piston by turning the fan attached to the motor with the left hand. If the rear gear is attached to the chain it will move in your hand correctly. If the chain does not move when you rotate the engine or it moves weirdly, you will have to reattach it man
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Clinician
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Post by case on Jul 5, 2013 8:03:04 GMT -6
Check these things. 1.kickstand/ make sure its on the center stand when firing/check kickstand switch if you have one. 2.Grounds. check all your green wires and make sure you have a clean connection to motor/frame 3.All your connections, go through them thouroghly and make sure they are all tight/disconnect them and inspect them 4.Brake saftey switch. connect together the wires leading to it to bypass it. 5. Faulty ignition is grounded/arced. check these things yes chinese scooters do this stuff all the time and it usually ends up being a loose wire or something simple good luck my man!!
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Clinician
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Post by case on Jul 4, 2013 22:20:17 GMT -6
what. its supposed to come off like that? even when warm, niether of the enrichers did that, at best warm, the tip came out a millimter or 2 but niether one looked like that. hmmm. the other enricher was from a junk bike. also,is there an o ring that is upposed to go in before the enricher? I willdo the experiment if the bike will run long enough....thanks, i was thinking it was the enricher, if the jet was too big it would still run fine when cold? because it revs and runs ok when cold dang scooters are hard to fix sometimes. oh well, happy 4th fellas, tomorrow may be a better day, although i think the privious owner really did a job on this and its hard to fix
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Clinician
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Post by case on Jul 4, 2013 19:49:35 GMT -6
Im not sure of the jet. Is there a way to identify? there were 2. after lookng at the plug, i changed from the large to the stock? one. Turning the screw had little fluctuation of idle even to fully closed. This made me belive the enricher was stuck , but i tried another. I know this must be something simple I hope......it seems like the choke is stuck wideopen and after it reaches temp it floods. thanks for the help !!!!!
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Clinician
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Post by case on Jul 4, 2013 17:06:12 GMT -6
Thanks bro!! i had the mix screw at any setting from 1/2 to 4 turns out and it doesnt make much difference when idling hot. When ice cold it makes a little difference. This morning it fired right up, i rode it, very slow. Then it stalled and wont run all day....one time i got it runnin and it would idle no problem but stall at the first sign of throtle.
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Clinician
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Post by case on Jul 4, 2013 16:28:23 GMT -6
Ok, so I ran the scooter. It seems to start well and throttle well until it gets just a little warm and then nothing, or it will barely idle, if you give it the slightest amount of gas, it will stall. Sometimes at that point it will backfire some gas from the carb in a spray and then act flooded......I tried 2 enrichers and cleaned the carb twice. I have adjusted my valves until i am blue in the face and still the same problem. As soon as it gets to operating temp, you cannot apply throttle. compression seems fine spark is ok even when hot Getting plenty of gas check valve ok makes a sucking sound when you give it gas and dies. manifold seems ok hoses seem connected right Alleyoop and the rest of you wise ones please help arrg
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Clinician
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Post by case on Jun 30, 2013 20:32:19 GMT -6
hey thanks Alleyoop, and Retradednija, tear it apart and do it again, and again and again. I spent 10 hours today on this. Ending up in a final ride up and down the street a few times, it bogs and wont idle , but accelerates ok. I assume the carb is all jacked up as well, so fuel sysyem overhaul tomorrow. It has a racing cdi, racing coil, pod filter and new jets came with it.(in a little baggy) Far as i can tell an "upgrade kit" with new piston, coil, head, cdi, and pod was installed and somehow the cam chain slipped off the gear in the block, it was tricky, but I could tell something was "not right" with the way the cam gear fit in before tightening up. Hope this helps someone. Case oh and the pics of it back together afte a 5 min ride. brand new jets...look big when you hold them up and look thru There are alos a bunch of assorted parts in bagies, valve springs and crap and a brand new head, didnt need it, this one looked good. Thanks guys hope I get her purrin after the clean and jet
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Clinician
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Post by case on Jun 30, 2013 16:55:46 GMT -6
Thanks guys. i figured out the seizing problem....I think. not only did he not put 2 bolts in, the cam chain was not around the rear gear in the block!!!! He tightened down the cam when it was clearly off, and cranked it up, the cam chain got stuck after a few rotations and blam lockup. After tearing down and reassembling the motor about 3 times, i realized that. I put the chain on the rear gear, and put the pistion at tdc, and put it back together. Now it turns and turns , no lockup, but it wont run....I am getting spark. it will crank and crank and sometimes go "put" So I hope ???there is nothing wrong with the engine as far as seizures go, but It wont run, so Im still tryin help valve lash set at .013 but its not "seized" anymore and seems to have good compression stumped now and tired. thanks guys Case
edit; holy crap.. fired up and ran like a top!!!!! csae closed. thanks again fellas
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Clinician
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Post by case on Jun 30, 2013 7:55:32 GMT -6
Tell us exactly what is happenig when you try to start it. If it just turns and turns and doesnt make a noise like it is or wants to fire, it is likely a spark problem....take off your airbox and spray a shot of starting fliud in there and try to start it....if there is no sign of the engine firing it is likey a spark problem............take out your plug and hold it to the head of the engine and bump the starter....look for a blue spark. than let us know whats up by removing the airbox and using starting fliud you can eliminate whether its just starving for air or starving for fuel.
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