Preparing for a Chinese scooter By nards (Read 4,515 times)

[jerryscript]

I just can't see spending close to $4k when I can get similar for around $1k. I mean I realize most Apple products are better quality than my cheapo Android and home built PC, same is true for Sym and Kymco over my Znen, but I saved enough to go on a nice vacation by not purchasing "the best" products. I admit I'll spend a bit more on maintenance for the Chinese scooters over their lifetime than I may on one from Taiwan, but not enough to make up for the initial savings.

And of course, I enjoy wrenching, which is one reason I don't own a cage, modern autos cannot be wrenched on at home without a few grand in diagnostic equipment. Bikes and scooters are the final domain for the home mechanic, other than sticking with decades old cages.

[nards]

Mar 15, 2015 13:16:35 GMT -6 jerryscript said:

I just can't see spending close to $4k when I can get similar for around $1k. I mean I realize most Apple products are better quality than my cheapo Android and home built PC, same is true for Sym and Kymco over my Znen, but I saved enough to go on a nice vacation by not purchasing "the best" products. I admit I'll spend a bit more on maintenance for the Chinese scooters over their lifetime than I may on one from Taiwan, but not enough to make up for the initial savings.

And of course, I enjoy wrenching, which is one reason I don't own a cage, modern autos cannot be wrenched on at home without a few grand in diagnostic equipment. Bikes and scooters are the final domain for the home mechanic, other than sticking with decades old cages.

This is my line of thinking exactly. I do enjoy wrenching too as I'm a mechanic with the National Guard. I also am trying to figure out exactly if the difference between Chinese and Taiwanese scooters is like comparing IPads and generic tablets. Or is it like comparing dollar store tools to professional grade ones.

Like are Chinese scooters outright rolling junk that have managed to snowball thousands of people over the last ten years solely based on price? Do you have to outright dismantle the entire scooter down too a bare frame upon arrival, and rebuild it with hundreds of dollars in better parts just so it can be even in the same universe as a name brand scoot?

Or are Chinese scooters somewhat more demanding and imperfect, but altogether decent assuming you do a good PDI, keep up with regular maintainance, and are willing to accept that you will have potentially have some more issues than the top quality ones.

Money really is an issue here. The difference between a Kymco Agility 125 and a Chinese scoot is literally several months of groceries for my family. Unless it is dramatically better quality top to bottom, it's very hard for me to justify the extra cost.

[Guitarman]

I've been riding since I was was about 12-13. I never really did more than basic maint on my bikes. Oil changes and such. But I've never been afraid of a toolbox. Once I got my Roketa, I became overly familiar with all my tools, and some I had to add to the collection.

A good quality PDI on a Chino scoot is taking it almost down to the frame and cleaning and making sure every electrical connection and mechanical one (nuts/bolts) are not only tight but water proofed. These bikes are simply not made to be ridden hard. And if they get wet... If you fix all the electrical connections up front, you will cut a good 50-60% of the usual problems with these things. The rest is normally mechanical failure due to inexperienced riders running WOT all the time.

If I were to get another scoot, it would be a Honda or a Kymco, maybe a SYM, but I'll never own another chino scoot (with the exception of one to convert to electric). It's just not worth the time and effort it takes to keep it running right.

[nards]

Mar 15, 2015 23:07:10 GMT -6 Guitarman said:

I've been riding since I was was about 12-13. I never really did more than basic maint on my bikes. Oil changes and such. But I've never been afraid of a toolbox. Once I got my Roketa, I became overly familiar with all my tools, and some I had to add to the collection.

A good quality PDI on a Chino scoot is taking it almost down to the frame and cleaning and making sure every electrical connection and mechanical one (nuts/bolts) are not only tight but water proofed. These bikes are simply not made to be ridden hard. And if they get wet... If you fix all the electrical connections up front, you will cut a good 50-60% of the usual problems with these things. The rest is normally mechanical failure due to inexperienced riders running WOT all the time.

If I were to get another scoot, it would be a Honda or a Kymco, maybe a SYM, but I'll never own another chino scoot (with the exception of one to convert to electric). It's just not worth the time and effort it takes to keep it running right.

I will admit, I want to flog it a bit like I do my motorcycles. Granted every bike I had was made to run Wot after every stop sign every time.

[Bashan]

Do you guys want to flog it all the time? Do you guys want to think about what's going on with your bike every time you go out? I don't. Get a Taiwanese bike and ride. The problems that come up are called....maintenance. I just fixed a Chinese bike, it was an ignition coil. I'm not sure if it was the coil or the CDI sending too much voltage. I'm sick of thinking of those things. Give me a SYM and I am on the road thinking of how nice the bike is running and....well, that's it.....it's zen.

[Deleted]

Mar 16, 2015 21:33:31 GMT -6 Bashan said:

Do you guys want to flog it all the time? Do you guys want to think about what's going on with your bike every time you go out? I don't. Get a Taiwanese bike and ride. The problems that come up are called....maintenance. I just fixed a Chinese bike, it was an ignition coil. I'm not sure if it was the coil or the CDI sending too much voltage. I'm sick of thinking of those things. Give me a SYM and I am on the road thinking of how nice the bike is running and....well, that's it.....it's zen.

Holy $h!t, he's starting to sound like luke! We need some Chinese scooter medicine up In here!

[nards]

That's the thing, I don't mind a 16 hour, $100+ dollar PDI, I don't mind scratching my head from time to time then turning a wrench, but I don't want major repairs every 500 miles or have a scooter I have no confidence in.

It seems like buying a Chinese scooter is kind of like playing Russian roulette with 4 bullets in the revolver cylinder. Most of the time, you get unlucky and end up yet another horror story. But sometimes (maybe 1/3 of the time?) you get a decent enough Chinese scooter that, after an exhaustive PDI isn't dramatically worse than a name brand scooter.

I honestly want to go Kymco or Sym... But $$ is really a huge factor in this whole thing. Then again, I'd rather spend $2,000 than throw out a thousand...

Are there any Chinese scooters that are at least halfway decent? is there any idea what the "success rate" on Chinese scooters looks like? For me, if I've got maybe a 50/50 shot at getting a halfway reliable scooter, then it's worth the risk.

[cyborg]

In my opinion,,, I would rather have a lightly used Sym / kymco/ genuine ,,, this is only my opinion,,, for the kind of riding I do I would probably be ok with a Chinese scoot,,, and without beating it too hard ,,, I go to the endurance runs and read ,,, in all years the cannonball has been run not one china scoot has been entered,,, guys that are serious about riding know way more than I ,,, I take their lead,,,

[Bashan]

Mar 17, 2015 8:40:04 GMT -6 nards said:

Are there any Chinese scooters that are at least halfway decent? is there any idea what the "success rate" on Chinese scooters looks like? For me, if I've got maybe a 50/50 shot at getting a halfway reliable scooter, then it's worth the risk.

My Pegasus CF Moto was not cheesy at all. I blew it up with over revving....my bad. The CF Moto Fashion was cheesy, shoddy construction. But CF is toast, take them off of the table.

I had a Motorino which is Znen. It was a solid build with good electricals and never gave me any trouble. So in answer to your question, I'd say Znen is a decent bike but still not Taiwanese. I'm not trying to sound elitist here, I've owned from Bashans to SYM and everything in between. I learned from the school of hard knocks and believe me, I tried my best to like Chinese bikes. By the way, the Motorino was toast 6 months after I sold it, I'm not sure what happened.

[cyborg]

I got this second hand from a friend of a dealer who sold both,,,,, Taiwanese and Chinese ,, the chinese bikes sold and came back repeatedly for repairs and service,,,the Taiwan bikes sold and never came back,,

[mike932]

nards, if you live in California, make sure the scooter is California CARB legal. As for which scooter to buy, this Znen scooter is very good-looking.....
www.scootersus.com/bmssabertooth.html

[cyborg]

Bms is a decent builder,,and have been and still am considering a bms bi-metro ,,,but am also considering a Sym symba,,,you see the cheap bastard trapped inside my head doesn't want to pay the extra $600-700 extra for the Sym,,,BUT i also don't want to get bit on the a$$ for something that will give me trouble down the road,,whereas more than a few symbas have been taken on world tours with nothing more than service and tires and the occasional chain replacement,,,and yes i live in ca as well and carb approved bikes are a must,,,you plain oldie can't register 48 state models,,,(and a super quick blast of the net shows an $8-900 difference in price)

[cyborg]

this is a pic of a sym head,,,let's see if i can get it loaded,,,look at the attention to detail,,,beryllium copper seats titanium valves and springs stock,,,it's just not the same,,,and the low buy in for the chinese scoot reflects this,,,i understand the allure of the crazy buy in prices of the chinese scoot,,,very attractive,,,,,but in the long run the money is a moot point,,,Rich went thru 7 or 8 chinese scoots in a 4 1/2 year period,,they are very dead,,,the Sym is a tick over a year old of the very same use,,,Rich took it apart at 9000 miles there was virtually no wear,,,even the belt which was still within spec,,the clutch wasn't even seated yet,, it wasn't even half way,, just about a third seated,,,,

[cyborg]

[nards]

Can't see the pic but I'm starting to turn to Taiwanese the more this thread goes on. I realize that a lot of the horror stories people have with these scoots is they are being sold to people who don't know what they are getting into... But even despite everything I could do to the Chinese scooter before I even turn it over the first time, it still won't solve many issues. Aka poor paint, cheap plastic body panels, engines that need excess valve adjustments, etc etc. not to mention Chinese scooter companies come and go- while I know the vast majority of parts are easily obtainable anywhere, any proprietary parts would be tough to come by if they broke.

Not to mention a Chinese scooter is worth $0 once I'm done with it. Sure, it costs way less, and buying an expensive scooter new will have some hardcore depreciation... But a 5 year old Kymco is worth SOMETHING, while a 5 year old Chinese scooter is worth a couple hundred at most.

I don't need something that will do a cannonball run or I can leave to my children in my will- i enjoy working on vehicles, but I don't want to buy myself an ongoing project/money pit.

Still, Chinese scoots, holy crap, the cheapness! I keep coming back to their shockingly low low prices.

So the ZNEN scooters are the best Chinese scooters from what I keep reading, but is that kind of like being valedictorian of summer school? Despite the fact they are the best Chinese scooters they are still light years behind Taiwanese ones?