I am done! By Bashan (Read 9,000 times)

[w650]

Not a gouge Rich, but what I meant about the Vulcan, or any motorcycle, is that if you redline every gear to get to cruising speed the engine will be toast sooner than later.

As for the Lance. I'm not convinced. While I was lurking at Modern Vespa I learned something interesting about VIN numbers. A Zongshen built Piaggio Fly 150 has a VIN number starting with ZAP the Italian WMI. Lurking around the 8th or 9th decimal in that VIN is a "1" or a "2". If it says 1 it's a Piaggio built in Italy. If it says 2 it's a Chinese plant model. Now really Rich do you think that they ship Knockdown kits all the way to China from Italy for a $3000 scooter? Dubious. My information says the frame and other stuff is Chinese made with a Leader engine coming from Taiwan.

Did you know that a Lance comes with an "R" VIN designating it's a Taiwanese scooter? I have my doubts that SYM ships knockdown kits to their Chinese plants too. It takes a lot of space to build an entire scooter pieces and then ship it to an assembly plant, and makes even less sense when the raw materials for a Taiwan built scoot probably come from the People's Republic to start with. Taiwan is a small island and I'm sure Bauxite mines are in very short supply, along with iron mines for steel production.

Also with my free time away from here I've observed the growth of this.

www.killermotorsports.com/Pit_Bikes_Cheap_Pit_Bike_SSR_Pit_Bike_Pitster_Pro_s/393.htm

Say you were me Rich and you had $1300to spend on two wheels?

Would it be this?

www.killermotorsports.com/RPS_250cc_Hawk_Enduro_Dirt_Bike_p/rps1-250-hawk.htm

or this?

www.killermotorsports.com/Peace_150cc_GT_S_Gas_Scooter_Moped_p/pe1-tpgs-828.htm

I've had better than fabulous results from Rocket (my 50cc Cub Clone) with zero breakdowns. It tells me that Chinese motorcycles are a solid investment.

P.S. Rich. Nobody hopes that the Lance is a huge success for you. I'm rooting for everything that doesn't say "Made in...Italy, Japan or Germany" on it. I also think Bintelli and Wolf scooters are diamonds in the rough that will be changing the minds of people about Chinese scooters.

In closing, a question? I hear a high intensity stator was installed in Sue's scoot. Was the coil stock or aftermarket?

[JR]

Mar 21, 2015 7:08:31 GMT -6 Bashan said:

Wow KZ, too much caffeine? I said many times blowing up those bikes was my fault. That's the way I ride, at 62 I'm not changing my core personality. And we'll see on the Citycom, that is a different animal. You'd just have to be floating along at 70 with the engine merrily humming to know what I mean. I pulled the CVT on the Citycom at 10K and there was virtually NO WEAR on the components. That's not a China bike.

Now I want to address this SYM bikes are built in China gouge. If you've read this thread you know Jack has been jabbing me about this too. So you and Jack finally agree on something?! I'm stunned. Maybe they are assembled in China but I can assure you they are SYM parts, SYM materials, SYM machines, SYM supervision, .......SYM bikes. It's supposed to get here today, we'll see what the thing's made of and I'll post it here. I'll bet it's head and shoulders above a pure China built bike.

Oh, and the difference with the 1500 Vulcan is at 90% throttle you'd be going 120 MPH. Even I'm not that crazy.

Jack has been jabbing me about this too

What?? Me jab? Why the nerve!~@!!!  Don't make me change the title of this thread to " I Thought I was Done!

[JR]

Mar 21, 2015 5:10:01 GMT -6 w650 said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the Lance PCH 125 made in SYM's China plant? Yes, it has a ceramic cylinder in its GY6 engine but it's made with basically the same stuff as your Puma. Chinese electrics, Chinese metal and Chinese rubber hoses. The same as an SYM Mio and Fiddle II.

Here's how it goes. Any machine that gets flogged on a daily basis will blow up. It's just a case of how far down the road per dollar spent. A flogged China scoot will pop at less than 10,000 abused, I'm betting a certain SYM Citicom will start having its issues at 20,000 or so. Beat on a Japanese scooter and you're probably talking 35,000 before it falls apart. As I've wandered the web since my departure here I've hung at Modern Vespa. Cooked pistons, dropped valves and an assortment of electrical issues on their $8000 wonder scoots. One guy didn't even make it home before the 250 Vespa seized. An out of round piston from the factory was the fault. Nobody should count their chickens before they're hatched.

How you use something counts for everything. Except for a BROKEN CLUTCH SHAFT (OK Jack? There's the admission) my CF Moto Fashion, the same as Rich's has 10,500 miles of sterling performance on it. My Bashan has almost 9,000 miles and runs like a top.

Here's the difference. I know that anything will last at 75% of an engine's revs. Climb into the 90% range and engine death is just a matter of time. Even on a Kawasaki 1500 Vulcan.

Correct me if I'm wrong

the same as Rich's has 10,500 miles of sterling performance on it

Might need to keep in touch with Rich so when you can't even find a spark plug for a Moto Rich's non running "Motos" will be good for replacement parts, better hurry though cause he gets in these moods and he's running out of room for the blown up heaps in the basement!  He mentioned a curb side Craigslist ad the other day! You know one of those first come first serve come get this free junk type ad?

As far as what you call riding the piss out of one and it'll blow up? Rich does ride his, hell he can ride in a hurricane, seriously! Got the biggest laugh awhile back on a day I told him that a blow you butt off the road storm was headed to Bama from Arkansas and to drive his truck, did he listen to me? Nooooooo and admitted it was a hell of a ride back home that evening in the 40+ MPH winds! He now checks the forecast in Arkansas too!

But the difference is Rich keeps his machines serviced religiously and even though he rides at a higher speed and in the hot Bama summer he by riding it fast isn't abusing the machine, if any water cooled scooter 250+ scooter can't handle 60 to 70mph on a good road then it's not much of a scooter, period.

The old 250B of mine if I leave out on a 90F+ day to ride any where I'm not going to baby it, haven't in the past? I don't try to drive anything in the ground but when I want to ride at a higher speed then if it can't handle it to me it's of lesser quality.

Got to put a wrench on her before spring riding, was on the phone yesterday to Rich and pressed the left brake lever and looked on the ground and saw brake fluid running and then no brake. Upon investigating this morning I discovered that the brake line is in two pieces joined together about mid way and one of those favorite southern insects the dirt dauber had built a nest right on where the front and back brake line coupled together. I guess they used acid mud because the joint had rusted through and gave way with pressure applied. I'll add that to my "what the Chinese need to look for" list, dirt dauber proof fittings! Hell anything should last longer that 7 years which is the age of old 250B now!

[cyborg]

i'll paraphrase myself from an earlier post a few months ago,,,yes they can build quality in china,,,take a look at any iphone or ipad or laptop "made" by apple,,,fit and finish,,,SUPERB!!! functionality,,,excellent!!!!,,,it's the only brand i'll use,,,all made in china,,,they are the envy of the industry,,,and what happens when they have a release?,,,lines out the door for days,,,people even camp out so they can have the first ones,,,it can be done and is being done there

[cyborg]

I'm glad it didn't hold till you hit it in a panic stop!!!!

[w650]

Thanks for the thought Jack and believe it or not I took your advice on that. I stocked up on brake pads and brake shoes in case CF Moto does stop selling parts. I'd like to believe that the CN 250 will be in production for awhile, or at least until I lose interest, and Partsforscooters and Scrappy stock those parts.

I guess we'll have to disagree on good maintenance though. If you twist the life out of an engine like some people do, all the valve adjustments and oil changes in the world won't save it. I'm sure Rich was religious with his maintenance of his CF Motos but it didn't save them.

Old Motorcycle riders all live by the dictum "Rev lower, live longer." So far it's worked on everything I've owned.

[Bashan]

Slight delay, the bike won't be here until between 8 and 11 tomorrow. First of all, the Puma failed because of a second bad ignition coil. It wasn't from Puma but it was Chinese made. The Puma also developed an oil leak which appears to be the main seal. THIS bike was rode by my wife 90% of the time. You can't blame me for flogging this bike, it just failed. Yes, I juiced up the charging system and it did speed up the bike. But not so much that it should fail. Also the front rotor started wobbling and some other things failed.

I don't regret buying the bike, it worked well for a while, I bought it for a song, and I could probably get it back up to speed. For what? To fail again? No sir I'm tired of that. Wrenching is fine, fruitless wrenching is a big pain in the arse. I'm going to tell you what a dealer told me......I know a bunch of them. He said "I don't like selling SYMs because they don't come back...ever. The Chinese bikes come back all the time for repairs and you make money."

Simple economics and you can't argue with that.....I would feel the same. Hell, in my business I tell people to gain weight and go jogging in flip flops (I'm a chiropractor). I'm kidding! But my point is the difference in durability is so marked that economically the SYMs almost don't make sense to dealers. The SYMs come with a two year warranty. Have you looked at a Chinese "warranty"? 90 days.......HAR.....and try to use it!

I did, with Green Earth Scooters and they did everything except hide in the outhouse to keep from paying a $30.00 claim. I did have a problem with the CF Moto Pegasus front wheel and Cookees got me another wheel in two weeks but that's the kind of guy he is. You want durability, quality, integrity, and reliability? Buy SYM, end of story. That's my opinion and I'm entitled to it. Rich

[JR]

Mar 21, 2015 14:05:42 GMT -6 w650 said:

Thanks for the thought Jack and believe it or not I took your advice on that. I stocked up on brake pads and brake shoes in case CF Moto does stop selling parts. I'd like to believe that the CN 250 will be in production for awhile, or at least until I lose interest, and Partsforscooters and Scrappy stock those parts.

I guess we'll have to disagree on good maintenance though. If you twist the life out of an engine like some people do, all the valve adjustments and oil changes in the world won't save it. I'm sure Rich was religious with his maintenance of his CF Motos but it didn't save them.

Old Motorcycle riders all live by the dictum "Rev lower, live longer." So far it's worked on everything I've owned.

Shafts don't forget shafts! Rich asked more out of the 150 that it could give, not a 150 made can take the everyday 90 mile round trip to work at the speeds he asked, add the summer heat and the fact it was a claimed to be better than the other cheap Chinese scooters Moto and it was doomed from the get go. The thing Moto tried to sell of we are better and worth more was all the same crap that Fly wanted you to believe and they'll be collector items one day.

But the 250 he blew up? If it was better then it would still be running and Rich wouldn't own a SYM, simple as that. He asked no more of the Moto than he does the SYM now. Only time will tell if the SYM will take it?

[w650]

At the same time I bought the replacement Chinese shaft I also bought an OEM Honda clutch shaft. If it breaks that I'm giving up. It's really pretty, all heat treated and polished up nice. It cost me over $70 with shipping compared to the $35 I spent on the China shaft.

Relax Rich. I was just asking about the coil. I'm sure the SYM will serve you well.

I do think you should see this though. Here's a Kymco that's about to go on the chopping block.

www.2smallerwheels.blogspot.com/2015/03/dont-tell-kimmie-but.html

[cyborg]

I'll bet $100 that we'll not hear anything more about input shafts now that the honda one is in there

[cyborg]

"At the same time I bought the replacement Chinese shaft I also bought an OEM Honda clutch shaft. If it breaks that I'm giving up. It's really pretty, all heat treated and polished up nice. It cost me over $70 with shipping compared to the $35 I spent on the China shaft.",,,,this is the difference,,,it's in the work to make the part correctly,,,machining of the part is just a piece of the puzzle,,,making it out of the correct materials is another piece,,,but a very important operation that is deleted often is heat treat,,,and i doubt that the honda shaft will fail,,,and the 2x cost of the part over the junk is worth every penny,,,there in a nutshell is the worth,,,,you are very lucky Jim and take it for granted that you understand and can repair your own machines,,,if you had to have that shaft replaced by a shop is that $35 worth saving?,,,when the labor would have been in the hundreds,,,and then have to do it twice,,,you'd be happy to pay for the real shaft and only have to do it once,,,,,I'll bet Rich has 200 hours or even more repairing his failed scoots,,,,how much would it have cost at a shop?? holy smokes who knows? what does a repair shop get per hour now $75??? and i'll also bet 200 hours is very conservative,,,i think in the long run the higher buy in pays for itself,,,this is one of the reasons i buy clean low mile used,,,unless i get a left over thats a couple years old and i get a screaming deal,,,,2002 was the last new bike i got before the stella and it was a leftover,,as far as used i figure let someone else pay the premium and scrub off hundreds even thousands,,,,i get the whole trying to save a buck thing,,,

[JR]

Mar 21, 2015 17:41:01 GMT -6 cyborg said:

I'll bet $100 that we'll not hear anything more about input shafts now that the honda one is in there

Or anything else that might surface as well.  Ok now back to the donuts!

[Bashan]

Still waiting, looks like it might get here at 6. I'm tired of waiting.

[Bashan]

He showed up at eight and we talked for an hour.....nice guy. We rolled the bike off in the rain and here she is. It's a beut, the fit and finish are perfect:

Remember to click on the image for the full size version

[cyborg]

Looks great Rich! If it works as good as it looks in the pics you should have a winner,,, I've been pouring over a bunch of reviews,,, most were very favorable,,, even the long term ones saying very little service needed,, there were a couple dissenters but all in all 90%or more gave it high marks,,,, with most of the dissension being about the top speed being only 60mph,,,," geez I thought it's only a 125cc what were they expecting?"