new member with a need for info/help By roboscoot (Read 1,194 times)

[roboscoot]

....my name is bob /robo.....i am new to this forum but on others as well... i am from new jersey....and have rode mcs and scooters for quite a while.....right now i am in a fix ...had my hyosung efi.scooter...ms3-250...worked on.....was with the shop quite a while ....had ecu re-flashed,,,,sensors all good and than found out scooter was not running tdc.....after one week and 12 miles....at a stop light and scooter cut out.....don't plan on throwing any other money at this other than a cam change tensioner....which i think,,,is not holding....and causing cam chain to slip and or cams to be way out of wack....

anyone here familiar with the scooter, the problem...resources addressing it.....i would surely appreciate it.....thanks robo...

[Alleyoop]

Are you sure it is the Cam Chain Tensioner, it could also be your WOODRUFF key on the Flywheel that has sheared off and caused it get out of time. One one way is to paint or make a scratch on one tooth of the cam and the chain that goes over that tooth. Then you will always know if it ever jumps a tooth.
Alleyoop

[roboscoot]

alleyoop....in researching my issue i did come across your picture illustration....which is nicely done...a bit of background if you please...this is a hyosung ms3-250...it was out of commission and warranty for some time...initially looked t problem as electrical...or a bad sensor....ecu reflashed...all sensors within ohm spec/limits...

got bogged down and brought it to a dealer/mechanic.....had them work on it....had spark,fuel system working....next moved to engine itself...compression ok....removed valve cover..etc...simply put they looked at it from the woodruff key perspectve....but i don't believe it was sheered off..

they got it started...and said it was off time.....and re-set to tdc....put plug back in and turned the key...hit the start button/brake...and it started and ran....i took it home and had it for exactly one week and about 15 miles when...i was at a stop light...and it just stalled out....

i do not plan on taking it back....or throwing more money at it....other than a reletively inexpensive tensioner.....they never replaced the one that was on there...and they are telling me now...thats probably it.....of course there is always an outside chance that a connector has come loose....or a ground wire problem../plug..but my instincts and experience tell me....to go back to what was worked on...just prior to it shutting down...and so i am back to the cams/chain....

im obviously bummed out over this....and in the data gathering/research mode...plan to make this a spring project....i will have a better sense as to what is going on after i remove the bucket seat...and cvt cover...and perhaps one panel...maybe..

cams right under valve cover....4 bolts but aluminum...need to be careful removing.....but thanks for your insights......the sheared key...is a possibility....but i think....its just probably off a notch or two on the sprocket.....which would prevent it from starting ....i will let you know once i get around to opening it up....

thanks again/bob

[Alleyoop]

You said they timed it and put in a tensioner so I would question that the chaim jumped a tooth. Unless of course they did not put in the tensioner correctly. But when and if you take the Valve cover off check the chain and see if it is nice and tight you should not be able to push it up or down. If so then they messed it up here is a video of how and what the tensioner does. They may not have put in the stop screw on top and it backed out.
Alleyoop

[roboscoot]

alleyoop...thanks for the video....no they did not put a new tensioner in.....in fact this is what really got me mad....essentially a 30 dollar item at hyosung source...i will know more when i take the cover off....no indication that woodruff key was sheared...on work invoice...if it was they would have had to put new flywheel...don't you think...unless key attaches to flywheel...which i think not..furthermore key could not be sheared off if they got it to start....so no im thinking more like cams out..over 180 degrees....and everything is loose..i think all they did...was realign and set...tensioner and tightened everything up...which for some reason is not holding....

from your reply if the chain is tight thats a good thing..or is it?..if loose i would think would need to look at that tensioner...thanks...any additional clarification appreciated....now to the video...

[Alleyoop]

Yes, the chain SHOULD NOT BE LOOSE the tensioner keeps the chain nice and tight. Its unforunate if they messed it up and not tightened something. They are known for not being detailed and tighten and button things up if they took stuff off. So after you pick up a scoot from a shop you should always check and go over the nuts and screws where they where working on it. And ask if they took stuff off because that is what you have to check for loose stuff.
Alleyoop

[jct842]

alley is right about double checking all work, when I had a pair of tires put on my majesty it only took 20 maybe 30 min and after a couple weeks I noticed a bit more exhaust noise.....they did not tighten the muffler clamp and a cap screw was missing. I ended up taking one off a milling attachment for my lathe to replace it. it would have only taken a few min to check the muffler and any thing else they had to take loose to install tires. and too late to complain.

[roboscoot]

alleyoop...thanks for that u-tube....what i have is bigger than what they worked on but nevertheless the principles are the same....also looked at a whole other bunch of stuff......

my approach for this project would be to first....work the mechanical end re tdc and cam chains.....if this is off.....the engine ...would not be able to make enough compression...so it would not start.....if everything is tight and aligned than i would have to carefully inspect the woodruff key...although i doubt this is it...and i hope not as for this scooter which is water cooled....you may have to drain some fluids to repair

the other outside possibility is the stator/magnito...re pick-up coil..but that gets me into electrics.....i am hopeing its not this as it is unlikely as then would not have been able to start and run it.....if the stator is shot....nevertheless same symptom.....cranks with no start/ignition.....its an outside chance....but i also mention a high failure part for this scooter....so have to keep it as a possibility....

[imnts2]

I am begining to think we all need to join Angies list and start daming these people. I now refusew to let a Yamaha dealer touch my majsety unless I can sit where I can see all the work being done. Period. Some with the guy who changes oil on my Subaru or Mercury. And the shop that installed a new power steering rack. Etc Etc. just plain sloppy work everywhere.

GRRRR.
Cheers
lefty2

[tvnacman]

most shops hide behind , our insurance will not permit you in the work area . Thats the bigest crock of bull , they take you to the work area to show you !@#$%^ to get your ok to do work . I would offer to sign an imdemdy form so I can see the work being done . I understand about a man not wanting someone standing over you while you work . If I'm paying I should be able to come and go and see freely .

I have been in home service for twenty five years , I try to fix what I can in the house some have to go out of the house for repair .

When working on ones central air , furnace , boiler etc.. I invite the home owner to watch , and I tell them some guys don't like to be watched and I understand . But if you leave him alone , then walk back in and he covers the work , something is wrong . Either he does not know what they are doing or they are lieing to you , in either case show him the door .

Same should apply to car mc shops .

John

[roboscoot]

yea you guys get it....lets say i took my truck to a mechanic and it was determined i needed a new timing chain....lets say the mechanic said he fixed it .....i pay for the repair...and than one week later and 10 more miles on the truck....its jerking and not running right....

so i bring it back.....what do you think a good reputable mechanic would do ( if there are any out there).....odds are he would open it up again if need be to fix it....

that's where i am at right now with my scooter
essentially the same timing tdc problem.....two cams on the scooter ...say one on the truck or car....

these guys act like they are jet engine engineers.....and ask for rates just as ridiculous....talk about need for regulation/oversight..