Rear-ended and Not Happy By vintner (Read 2,031 times)

[kz1000st]

I don't think Wallace Racing knows about multi valves considering their mast head shows an antique American push rod machine, but using their calculator AND my infallible TI-85 for conversion I get 20.79 for the street and 34.65 hp racing. Add overhead cam and four valves and 22.45 hp is more than possible.

Motocycles covert all of the HP to the wheel with a chain and different speed transmissions while any scooter looses lots of HP with a CVT and belt.

Uhh, not quite. If you ever saw the inside of a bike you'd know that power is transmitted through a clutch, intermediate and output shaft. Not to mention all the bearings and those nasty pins and rollers of a chain. It's why all the bike magazines take readings at the rear wheel now since all bike engines lose ponies between the crank and rear wheel.

You're only proving my point. Let's say that again-440 pounds-Why that's even more than Reflex Replica with a two valve Linhai 257. Despite that what did Dave say?

The JetMax started easily hot or cold. The throttle is responsive and the engine is MUCH freer revving than the 250cc powerplant in CFMoto's Fashion scooter. Acceleration is brisk and smooth. Gotta love fuel injection.

"Acceleration is brisk and smooth" Hardly the symptoms of either a VOG with a 257cc or a 440 pound Linhai powered scooter. Plus there has never been any question that any of the Linhai powered scooters, even an Aeolus, are built to the higher standards of a CF Moto.

Plus saying Dave is a tool of any manufacturer is patently untrue.

Oh yes, I should mention that I feel free to openly state my concerns because, aside from building the scooter, Piaggio had nothing to do with this review. Like Honda, Yamaha and Suzuki, Piaggio has made it clear to me that they DON'T put "review" scooters in the hands of people who run websites like JustGottaScoot.com. We are not considered a "legitimate" media source because we don't accept advertising. That's right, we won't take their advertising money, so we get no scooters to review.

Read the rest of the test.
www.justgottascoot.com/bv350.htm

He could be riding a BV 350 if he played ball, which he doesn't.

[vintner]

Well, anyway, I did it.

Yesterday I sat on a Kymco Downtown 300i. Solid, sharp looking, feels good sitting on it. Their price was $6443 out the door. Sticker shock and I had to pass.

Today, I went to Go Moto and did my sitting on the Jetmax. Fit was actually a little better sitting, storage area was fine. Also listened to one running, sounded fine. Price-a lot better. Out the door $3500. I told him yes on it and will be picking it up tomorrow.

With the nearly $3000 saved, I have hired painters for the house. I am too old and my knees too bad to be going up and down a ladder.

New Jetmax Scooter and house freshly painted for the price of the Kymco Downtown-Win win.

[cookees]

would love to hear your impressions of the Jetmax.

[jaksonbrown]

Aug 10, 2012 16:40:06 GMT -6 kz1000st said:

I don't think Wallace Racing knows about multi valves considering their mast head shows an antique American push rod machine, but using their calculator AND my infallible TI-85 for conversion I get 20.79 for the street and 34.65 hp racing. Add overhead cam and four valves and 22.45 hp is more than possible.

Motocycles covert all of the HP to the wheel with a chain and different speed transmissions while any scooter looses lots of HP with a CVT and belt.

Uhh, not quite. If you ever saw the inside of a bike you'd know that power is transmitted through a clutch, intermediate and output shaft. Not to mention all the bearings and those nasty pins and rollers of a chain. It's why all the bike magazines take readings at the rear wheel now since all bike engines lose ponies between the crank and rear wheel.

You're only proving my point. Let's say that again-440 pounds-Why that's even more than Reflex Replica with a two valve Linhai 257. Despite that what did Dave say?

The JetMax started easily hot or cold. The throttle is responsive and the engine is MUCH freer revving than the 250cc powerplant in CFMoto's Fashion scooter. Acceleration is brisk and smooth. Gotta love fuel injection.

"Acceleration is brisk and smooth" Hardly the symptoms of either a VOG with a 257cc or a 440 pound Linhai powered scooter. Plus there has never been any question that any of the Linhai powered scooters, even an Aeolus, are built to the higher standards of a CF Moto.

Plus saying Dave is a tool of any manufacturer is patently untrue.

Oh yes, I should mention that I feel free to openly state my concerns because, aside from building the scooter, Piaggio had nothing to do with this review. Like Honda, Yamaha and Suzuki, Piaggio has made it clear to me that they DON'T put "review" scooters in the hands of people who run websites like JustGottaScoot.com. We are not considered a "legitimate" media source because we don't accept advertising. That's right, we won't take their advertising money, so we get no scooters to review.

Read the rest of the test.
www.justgottascoot.com/bv350.htm

He could be riding a BV 350 if he played ball, which he doesn't.

Uhh, not quite. If you ever saw the inside of a bike you'd know that power is transmitted through a clutch, intermediate and output shaft. Not to mention all the bearings and those nasty pins and rollers of a chain. It's why all the bike magazines take readings at the rear wheel now since all bike engines lose ponies between the crank and rear wheel.

Anyone who has ever rode a two wheel machine of any kind knows this? Good grief but clutch and bearings all on a scooter too plus a rubber belt that slips and a variator. They all lose ponies from the engine to the back wheel but a scooter is a lot more.

Also as you know since you ride a 250 Yamaha and your wife has a Rebel you can command the ponies a lot better with 5 to 6 gears, hold RPM's up going up a hill and the clutch on a motorcycle once engaged is solid and not moved unless you do it, not so with the clutch on a CVT scooter.

Even a wore out chain transmits power directly to the wheel better than a brand new scooter belt.

Comparing a motorcycle to a scooter is absurd with any formula even your never heard of magic formula to make HP come out like you want.

Take either one of your 250 motorcycles and take off on a trip of any kind and stacked next to any 250 scooter and you'll be sitting at the cafe drinking coffee when the scooter drives up.

Dave which you think so highly of on his opinion didn't even compare apples to oranges.

Also you seem to ignore the fact of his final conclusion of the scooter just didn't stack up to the "other" scooters in comparison, it's outside body indicated typical cheap Chinese work and quality plus the same old Chinese 10 MPH off speedometer.

So Moto finally builds it's first non-clone scooter holds a high $3k plus price tag with a to say the least under $2k quality and it's going to be a winner? Time will tell but If I'm betting you'll see them like the typical cheap Chinese scooter on Craigslist before long and affordable then. Do a good PDI on it and you'll probably have a decent scooter.

Seem,s CfMoto never learns, build a high priced cheaply built scooter call it better and then let them sit on the show room floor and gather dust while the other cheap scooters are going down the road. Today's economy doesn't support the sale of cheap stuff for high dollars and now that they've pulled their long time proven scooter line up they're really pushing the going out of business button.

[parkrider]

Aug 8, 2012 6:22:34 GMT -6 vintner said:

Hey Park, I only get cranky when I read your rambling as in your reply #4. And of course when I get rear ended and loose a bike.

That's okay Park, I understand that is just your style.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Oh great, i have the papal blessing of a scooterist.

great another biker who was kicked around the living room for a child hood and then gets on a bike to vent his rage, reaches out to molests others with same like it was candy..

if you don't want replies why not write this stuff where no one will see it.

your attitude is another reason scooter folk never band to gather and do something about the sorry state of the American roads, they are so busy flaming each other, they have no energy left to better there lives,, and nothing changes.

mean while congrats on getting ripped off on the pay out.

3 years from now when you see how you where taken ,,,, maybe you will leave a post like my 4.

what a bunch of emotional losers

what a pity, to know so well nothing but nut and bolt sizes to the point of losing ones own soul and glad tidding to others.

hell comes in many shapes, for sure one is a tool box.

[kz1000st]

Dave points out flaws in the build on a CF and it has under $2K quality? If you'd like to see flaws pointed out let him look at a MC250-54B. I'll bet that would take up several pages with his critical eye. He made a point of saying that it ran fine.

As I mentioned earlier, a lot of my riding for this review was on highways. As it happened, I had to do a fair amount of running around the Twin Cities area on the days that I had the JetMax. It accelerated into faster (55MPH - 65MPH) traffic just fine and was also comfortable with rush-hour speed changes. Holding highway speeds was also not an issue for this scooter. It's light and responsive enough for be easy to ride at city speeds as well.

Freeways in a major city are a hectic place and yet Dave didn't flinch at riding them. I've seen many people say the 250 Linhai is better suited to backroads and a lot nervous on Interstates. If it works like a real bike and allows me to use highways I can stand a mismathed glove box door and a few extra minutes to do a trip. What I can't tolerate is being blown off the road by a Yugo and struggling to maintain 60 mph around tractor trailers. So far I haven't seen any Linhai stories involving interstate travel or glowing reports of their being useful on same. Dave put the CF to the interstate test and reports it works fine and "It accelerated into faster (55MPH - 65MPH) traffic just fine " Try that on any previous Chinese 250, yes even my Fashion won't do it. Also proof positive of a little more than 18 hp.

Still here Earthman? Go back to Rebels, Doug will sooth your fevered brow. Oh, and there is an organization fighting for better roads and treatment for two wheelers. It's called the American Motorcyclist Association (AMA) and I'm a life member. Once people on scooters get out of denial, and finally admit they're really bikers too, they'll have a voice.

[jaksonbrown]

Well said but again he compared it to one scooter, ran in the city on smooth flat roads and made all his assumptions including the cheap look in hours.

As far as the 250B no doubt it's cheap and it has a cheap price tag can buy two of them for one Jetmax, no way around that. Also I know of 2 linhais that have made 105F + city traffic and the haul of the hills and bad roads and are still running, give the Jetmax some time and we'll see if it holds up to that kind of running and in the meantime one who does buy the cheap 250B can used the extra money saved to buy high priced gas which on the average the MPG is better than the heavy Jetmax with the cheap Chinese glove box!

For sure the cheap glove box is affodable on the 250B. Yes the flaws on a 250B are the same so it's fair to say the same flaws on the Jetmax make it a under $2k scooter a fair comparision.

[jaksonbrown]

Aug 11, 2012 2:03:15 GMT -6 @parkrider said:

Aug 8, 2012 6:22:34 GMT -6 vintner said:

Hey Park, I only get cranky when I read your rambling as in your reply #4. And of course when I get rear ended and loose a bike.

That's okay Park, I understand that is just your style.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Oh great, i have the papal blessing of a scooterist.

great another biker who was kicked around the living room for a child hood and then gets on a bike to vent his rage, reaches out to molests others with same like it was candy..

if you don't want replies why not write this stuff where no one will see it.

your attitude is another reason scooter folk never band to gather and do something about the sorry state of the American roads, they are so busy flaming each other, they have no energy left to better there lives,, and nothing changes.

mean while congrats on getting ripped off on the pay out.

3 years from now when you see how you where taken ,,,, maybe you will leave a post like my 4.

what a bunch of emotional losers

what a pity, to know so well nothing but nut and bolt sizes to the point of losing ones own soul and glad tidding to others.

hell comes in many shapes, for sure one is a tool box.

Glad that's over.

[kz1000st]

I'm saying that you have to hand over a 250B and see. He sees things that I wouldn't even notice. Use the finger technique on a Jetmax and a B and see if the panels are the same thickness for a start. I've looked over the pictures of the seams he calls mismatched and I can't see it, even on a flatscreen monitor. We'll find out for sure now that Vintner owns one. He will tell us the difference.

[jaksonbrown]

What? So now you are questioning Dave's review? One that does a fair and non-influenced review with no hidden things to gain by it?

What about his final conclusion? It's apparent that it does not compare to the Japan and Tiawinese scooters. He gave it a good rating for the drivetrain but other than that his review was cheap scooter and he even compared it to another CFMoto scooter.

There's no doubt the 250B is cheap quality on the plastics and such but the drivetrain on it has a good record too with both style engines.

Lastly in the market if you're going to pay over $3k for a scooter you need over $3k quality and $3k quality means a $3k glovebox, panels etc.

I'm betting old Dave could see it very clearly, who knows maybe they took his review to heart, made improvements and Vinters will be better? For the sake of his checkbook I hope so.

Not a very good feeling to expect more for bigger $$$$ and get less.