Scooter Will not turn over but will start if cross solenoid By shamus (Read 5,868 times)

[shamus]

 Hello,
  So took wife's scooter out of storage and hooked up new battery it turned over like ten times then nothing not even a click. Well I try ed looking for a manual nothing out there . So I started breaking down to find starter relay/Solenoid. So to see if solenoid was problem I crossed the terminal ls and it turned over then after a few turns it started. SO I know it must be the starter solenoid so I order a GY6 solenoid one that would fit this 150 cc scoot. I installed it like old one same plug and all that and still nothing. SO now the questions :
How do I test to see if Solenoid is working?
and
Can i test leads from chassis plug ?
My understanding is the solenoid is powered with + and - to switch so supplying + to correct side and grounding other wire would activate  I just need to test Solenoid correctly before I send it back and have it be something else instead.

[shamus]

I also tested the wire plg(that goe's to solenoid) and found that one wire is grounded and other is grounded when I hit the starter button even with battery disconnected is that normal?

[Bashan]

Here, this is in the Library under electrical with a lot of other articles....it should answer all of your questions. If not get back on this thread. Welcome to the forum. Rich

These pictures and procedures are on a Bashan 150cc; your scooter, parts, and wire colors may vary but the basic repair process should be similar. Before starting, for tests that involve the brake to be held in, you can use an elastic tie to hold it closed to free up a hand:

• Follow the red wire from the battery up to the solenoid, observe components:
  
  
  
  
• Next, you must check to make sure the starter button is working, if it isn't the solenoid won't engage when pushed. The following diagram shows how the energized solenoid forces a contact (blue arrow) that sends electricity to the starter. Also, you can see how the brake must be pulled in to complete the starting circuit:
  
  
  
• Set you multimeter to continuity (read the manual, they're pretty simple), ground the black lead and touch the red lead to the red/yellow wire on the activator wire supply (not the one coming FROM the solenoid!) and push the button, you should hear a continuity tone.
  
  
  
  
• Here you can see the meter is set to continuity and it is reading less than 60 ohms, a tone will sound indicating a good circuit; if it doesn't, replace the starter button:
  
  
  
  
• Now you must check to make sure there is power on the other wire of the activator wire harness. Put the red test lead in the green/yellow side of the connector and with the multimeter set to test DC, turn on the key and pull in a brake, you should get about 12V DC, if you don't you have a loose connection or short somewhere:
  
  
  
  
  
• Reattach the solenoid activator harness. Take the wire off of the solenoid that runs to the starter. Turn on the key, pull in a brake, and hit the starter button, an audible click should come from the solenoid, if it does not the solenoid is bad and must be replaced.
  
• If it clicks you must make sure power is going across the solenoid when it is activated. Make sure the black wire is off of the solenoid and set your red test lead up like this:
  
  
  
  
• Turn on the key and hit the starter (pull in a brake!) and you should measure about 12V DC going across the solenoid, if not replace the solenoid:
  
  

[shamus]

Thanks Rich I figured out it was a bad Solenoid it was DOA good thing there only a fin . Ill order another one. I cheeked voltage from plug and switch when pushed and was getting 12.82 volts and did it a few times and the switch worked fine .

[Bashan]

Actually you can use any solenoid if it's rated to handle the amps. They're all the same...a relay. And few are other than 12v DC. I've used lawn tractor solenoids before in a pinch. But they are more than five bucks for sure. That was a bargain. Rich

[shamus]

I wonder if I want to get two in case I get another DOA . I was kinda pissed to have to do all that trouble shooting to figure out it was a DOA solenoid (sigh). I can test solenoid if I apply 12 volts to plug side and run continuity across solenoid lugs can't I ? I would like to test it before I have to install it .

[Bashan]

That is exactly how you do it. Finally, a guy that not only HAS a multimeter, but knows how to use it! You have given me hope for the future existence of mankind. Just a little...not much. Rich

[Alleyoop]

Squeezing the brake the power wire should have juice, pushing the start button grounds the Solenoid and completes the circuit.
Alleyoop

[shamus]

Ok on the plug that connect's to solenoid one wire had 12. something volt's the other was grounded and the power came active when I hit the start button that is what should be happening correct?. From what i understand the plug wire works a electromagnet switch and needs both +and negative to operate am I assuming that is correct?.  read testing the solenoid you check continuity between both plug leads on solenoid if there is continuity solenoid is bad. Also becasue it is a switch black and Red leads can go on either side correct?

[shamus]

I hate being held up by a little part t starts great both with kick startand crossing the solenoid but that is no solution .

[Bashan]

Not the solenoid side...but the bike side of the connector. If the wire colors are consistant with most scooters, one wire (R/Y) should get continuity to ground when you push in the start button. This pulls current through the armature of the solenoid which pulls the battery contacts closed. It is the armature snapping shut that makes the click you are supposed to hear. If you don't hear the click the armature coil may be shorted.

Where does the R/Y get it's current to activate the armature? From the G/Y, the other wire in the connector, right next to the R/Y. You hit the start button and it closes the G/Y to ground and runs a current through the armature....snap....the big cables are connected....the starter turns. But the DOT mandates a safety feature for bikes, you have to pull in the brake to start it. I can't tell you how many lives this has saved. But you get the energy to the solenoid armature from the G/Y brake light wire so you have to energize the wire by pulling in the brake.

So R/Y is to start button, you should get continuity from R/Y to frame when you hit the start button. The G/Y supplies the juice to the start button but only has energy when the brake light is lit. So ground one lead and test the G/Y for DC when you turn ON the ignition switch and pull in the brake....should get 12v DC. Solenoid side on that connector? Probably some resistance through the coil, I'm not sure I never thought to test it. It doesn't matter, if the other tests are OK, the solenoid should click, if it doesn't...it's bad. Rich

[Bashan]

Testing for continuity the red and black leads do not matter in their placement. They simply pass a small electric current between them and see if it goes through. On testing DC, if you get the leads backwards it will simply read negative DC...if you switch them it will read correctly. I believe the armature is directional and must have a proper neg and pos supply but I'm not entirely sure. I know the auto choke doesn't care where it gets it, positive, negative, AC or DC.....it's just a little slut.

[shamus]

Ok I got a heaftier solenoid and it works great and mounts close to where the other one did this one will I think be a better choice it is a 12 volt tractor solenoid used old wire and plug from old solenoid to wire up. Same amp's also just need to go back out and get nuts for new solenoid it did not come with lug nuts go figure and ones from old one do not fit (sigh)

[spanky84]

What if when you connect the battery you hear a noise coming from the starter pretty sure something is connected wrong don't know what

[Alleyoop]

Hot wire from battery goes to one Terminal on the SELENOID the other Terminal goes to the STARTER.
If that is correct then the SOLENOID is making contact inside with the two terminals and is not disengaged inside. BAD STUCK ON SOLENOID.
Alleyoop