need help identifying a part By unm (Read 1,303 times)

[unm]

I have a Sachs Amici (also known as a Daeim Besbi) GY6 125cc scooter - has a 152QMI engine.

Unfortunately I cannot seem to find any documentation specific to this model and am working from various generic manuals.

Recently, the headlight has started to intermittently go out while riding. As I finish work at 2am, this is somewhat undesirable.

at the front of the scooter, there is a 5 wire regulator/rectifier, but there is another item next to it that looks roughly similar, but has 4 wires going into it. 

The item I think is a regulator/rectifier has red, green, black, yellow and pink wires (all matches up to what most wiring diagrams say it should be).

Slightly lower and to the left (from a normal sitting position on the scooter), there is another unit that looks  similar, but is slightly smaller and has 4 wires in a row going in to it - brown, black, green and pink (left to right).  It is a solid state IC, epoxy packed with a heatsink and is approx 5cm/2in square, it has 33190 stamped on the side, see image attached.

Can anyone advise what this is likely to be? I can't see what else would  be required on a simple GY6 scoot.

The Sachs is wired so the headlight always comes on once the engine is running and there is a high/low beam switch on the left handlebar grip. I currently see about 8Volt AC on the pink and yellow regulator connections when idling, rising to 9V at higher revs. When the light goes out, this drops to about 1V - it can happen at any revs. Wiggling the green wire seems to bring it back, but as it is intermittent and I have to remove the front panel to get to it, am unable to reliably test things. With the regulator disconnected, I see 20V AC at idle, rising to 40V at higher revs on the yellow and pink lines.

I am currently thinking either regulator, or a problem with the ground connections somewhere. If I knew where the green wire goes to/from the regulator, or the purpose of the mystery IC, then I could work things out.

May also be worth mentioning - if I disconnect either the regulator, or the mystery IC, the headlight goes out, but engine continues to run fine (as expected)


TIA

[tvnacman]

your mystery ic is a relay (solid state), i'm not sure if you headlights run ac voltage or dc. I suspect the relay gets made ac off the from the stator. We can with your help figure it out say (85 green) (87 pink) you have black and brown to figure out.

www.google.com/search?q=bosch+relay+diagram&biw=1366&bih=667&tbm=isch&imgil=wGKJKoVUxPUJ6M%253A%253BUh5_rLr9XqLI7M%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.mp3car.com%25252Fvbulletin%25252Fthe-faq-emporium%25252F117895-faq-relays-how-they-work-and-how-to-wire-it-up.html&source=iu&pf=m&fir=wGKJKoVUxPUJ6M%253A%252CUh5_rLr9XqLI7M%252C_&usg=__e6P_cSjdNyz_uV-4gK74GayMfVQ%3D&ved=0CDUQyjdqFQoTCPjB0anW7sYCFQuKDQodSGsGnQ&ei=0oOvVfiQJYuUNsjWmegJ#imgrc=wGKJKoVUxPUJ6M%3A&usg=__e6P_cSjdNyz_uV-4gK74GayMfVQ%3D

John

[unm]

D'oh!

That makes perfect sense. Hadn't even thought about relays with a permanently on headlight.

I shall give it some thought today along with a review of some wiring diagrams. Should be able to figure it out.

Many thanks.

[Alleyoop]

[tvnacman]

Jul 22, 2015 16:44:24 GMT -6 unm said:

D'oh!

That makes perfect sense. Hadn't even thought about relays with a permanently on headlight.

I shall give it some thought today along with a review of some wiring diagrams. Should be able to figure it out.

Many thanks.

don't be a stranger there is always room for another electrical/electronic guy or gal. I have not seen the relay before, probe it let us know what you find.

John

[unm]

The SSR seems to have green as ground. black as +12VDC (varies with battery voltage), pink is the same AC as the pink on the reg/rec ,brown goes to the headlights and seems to be DC - slightly hard to tell though as my multimeter (victor 86c) also shows a valid DC signal from the alternator - not sure how it auto-ranges or what waveform the alternator puts out.
I would expect the SSR to have the ground and 12VDC be the control lines and the AC input be a straight pass through to the output, but perhaps the pink line is the control.
Either way, the headlight works happily with either the pink or the black jumpered direct to the brown.


Anyway, what I have done for now is to pull the spade connector for the headlight output and put in an isolator switch on a length of figure-8 cable I had lying around. This means that when it fails, I don't have a distracting flickering headlight while driving home from work (it also avoids attracting unwanted attention from the few other road users). I have a week of straight shifts coming up and not much time to investigate, so will order a replacement 5 wire reg/rec (only $12) and test that next week.

I may also (time allowing) remove the SSR from the circuit and jumper the black to the brown with my manual switch so I can have a headlight for the darker portions of the ride home, if the problem gets worse. It is easy to charge the battery manually if needed.

At the moment, the reg/rec is most likely culprit as 7V at idle seems suspicious. It is lower cost to replace it than to invest time diagnosing.

Nice that the scoot still runs regardless, love the simple self contained ignition.

[tvnacman]

The black wire is 12vdc from the ignition switch. Perhaps the pink makes the relay when running then the brown is the load wire. For lights.

[Alleyoop]

On Most scoots the Brown Wire is always the running lights hot wire.

[unm]

The remaining question is whether the pink or the black is the main 12V input and which is the switch control line. A check with the multimeter and a 12V battery should confirm. I expect resistance between the remaining two pins will drop to zero when I apply 12V correctly across the control lines.

The headlight itself has green, white and blue input wires.
I believe the brown relay output wire goes to the headlight switch for dip or main beam.

Anyone know of a location for a wiring diagram similar to this setup?

[tvnacman]

Jul 24, 2015 19:40:14 GMT -6 unm said:

The remaining question is whether the pink or the black is the main 12V input and which is the switch control line. A check with the multimeter and a 12V battery should confirm. I expect resistance between the remaining two pins will drop to zero when I apply 12V correctly across the control lines.

The headlight itself has green, white and blue input wires.
I believe the brown relay output wire goes to the headlight switch for dip or main beam.

Anyone know of a location for a wiring diagram similar to this setup?

I suspect the control is acv off the stator, this way the relay will make when the stator produces ac voltage. There maybe a diagram around close to what you have. You will have to check the tech section. It could be in in one of the friends forums. This has come up in the past it is not common maybe Alleyoop or @jr would know. What other problems are you having some of the circuits are committed to memory.

John

[Alleyoop]

Check if this Daeim Besbi diagram helps:
Alleyoop

[unm]

thanks for the diagram.
It is close, but not identical (even though the scoots are the same with different branding). Possibly due to changes over time.

The diagram doesn't show a light relay and the alternator wire is white not pink, but otherwise it seems accurate.

I am having no other issues - just that the headlight is intermittent and it only seems to happen when warm.

Currently waiting on delivery of a rec/reg and some time to play. I will update in a few days. My limited experience of SSR's is ones that use a DC signal for control of mains AC, but it makes sense to me that the stator winding would be the control line.

[tvnacman]

does your horn work with the key on and engine not running?

John

[Alleyoop]

If the light acts up after things get warm I would suspect the Diode.
Alleyoop

[Alleyoop]

If the light acts up after things get warm I would suspect the Diode. Also on other diagrams a pink wire carries 12v to the headlights.
Alleyoop