Clutch Springs RPM and Variator weights symptoms? By terrigno (Read 5,045 times)

[terrigno]

Hi Guys. Looking definitely for Alley on this one since he really helped me get my scoot back to the way it was.

I currently have the 5 Gram Dr. Pulley sliding roller weights in the variator. I purchased the Dr. Pulley regular 5 gram roller weights also as a spare. But is there a difference with the sliding design and the regular roller? Going any lower on Gram sizes, is that safe? What are the symptoms of the weights going bad, or the weight? I notice when I ride I get like a slight ginding feel in the drivetrain which goes in and out at times. Not to rough but I can feel the vibration. I noticed that when there were 8 Gram weights in there, it didn't do that. Is this an RPM being higher thing type of feel? Or is that normal to feel that way?

Also. Is it worth changing out the clutch springs? I was thinking of just buying another clutch with maybe like 1500RPM springs in it already. I'm pretty much trying to go for the best way to move the fastest with the scooter. Fastest take off and fastest speeds basically. Without damaging the engine. Although most of the time, I will say I ride WOT. I just cant go slower then WOT lol. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks guys

49cc TaoTao ATM Scoot.

[terrigno]

[trashtruck12172]

A 49cc is what it is and with that being said if you're looking for more speed you should consider a bigger bike. yes there are performance upgrades for them but for any real speed gain you'll end up going bbk and final gearing upgrades. and after all that money gets spent upgrading, you could have gotten a bigger bike. just sayin.

[terrigno]

I can understand that. Lets keep in mind that I don't have my license. So I have to work with a 49cc. You know?

[kagetenshi]

Well, on another note I have a taotao VIP 49cc. I removed the paar system and noticed a slight but albeit noticeable gain in power.
As for the springs and rollers, the lighter the weight the faster your take-off should be, but at the cost of top speed. The opposite is true for increased weight. Heavier weights, more top end but at the cost of low end power. The angle of the torque driver can also affect power.
Just my 2 cents.

[Alleyoop]

All very good points made by all that chimes in.

I think 5 gram is about the lowest I would go. We do not know how your motor runs IF it is creating lots of RPMS or not. If you have a tach let us know what your rpms are at WOT which would help determine if any more can be gotten regarding speed and or faster take offs.

But remember Faster take offs all that means in your case is STARTING WITH HIGHER RPMS BEFORE THE CLUTCH ENGAGES. So if your scoot starts to move say around 2000 rpms RIGHT NOW and you get a CLUTCH with 1500 rated springs then you ADD the 1500 to the 2000 and now your RPMS NEED TO RISE TO around 3500 before it GRABS the BELL and turns your wheel. So if your riding around at say 20mph your rpms will be higher to keep the CLUTCH PADS ENGAGED. If the rpms drop below the 3500 the pads will disengage and you will be free wheeling.

The important thing is to know the RPMS, to determine what is needed and what the motor is putting out.
So I would suggest to get a TACH they are cheap and can be transfered from one scoot to another.
Here is a very good little take that registers with no delays, the cheaper ones on ebay do not register quickly they are slow to register the rpms.

[kagetenshi]

Very well said. Another "freebie upgrade" that I noticed a few others do, and have done myself, was to drill a few holes through the underside of the muffler close to the pipe to allow for a more free flow. It increased my top end by about 3mph GPS verified. And it didn't decrease the low end grunt I needed to get into the local 40 MPH traffic.

[jaxrhapsody]

Sept 30, 2015 14:49:14 GMT -6 Alleyoop said:

All very good points made by all that chimes in.

I think 5 gram is about the lowest I would go. We do not know how your motor runs IF it is creating lots of RPMS or not. If you have a tach let us know what your rpms are at WOT which would help determine if any more can be gotten regarding speed and or faster take offs.

But remember Faster take offs all that means in your case is STARTING WITH HIGHER RPMS BEFORE THE CLUTCH ENGAGES. So if your scoot starts to move say around 2000 rpms RIGHT NOW and you get a CLUTCH with 1500 rated springs then you ADD the 1500 to the 2000 and now your RPMS NEED TO RISE TO around 3500 before it GRABS the BELL and turns your wheel. So if your riding around at say 20mph your rpms will be higher to keep the CLUTCH PADS ENGAGED. If the rpms drop below the 3500 the pads will disengage and you will be free wheeling.

The important thing is to know the RPMS, to determine what is needed and what the motor is putting out.
So I would suggest to get a TACH they are cheap and can be transfered from one scoot to another.
Here is a very good little take that registers with no delays, the cheaper ones on ebay do not register quickly they are slow to register the rpms.

Wouldn't the clutch engage sooner, or would you need more than just 1500rpm springs?

[Alleyoop]

I do not understand your question?

Stronger springs REQUIRE HIGHER RPMS for the pads top engage the BELL. Don't forget it is CENTRIFUGAL FORCE that throws the PADS out to grab the bell which in turn turns your wheel. So the CLUTCH PULLEY has to turn faster which means HIGHER RPMS.

[jaxrhapsody]

Oct 1, 2015 13:56:22 GMT -6 Alleyoop said:

I do not understand your question?

Stronger springs REQUIRE HIGHER RPMS for the pads top engage the BELL. Don't forget it is CENTRIFUGAL FORCE that throws the PADS out to grab the bell which in turn turns your wheel. So the CLUTCH PULLEY has to turn faster which means HIGHER RPMS.

I thought 1500 springs woule be weaker than stock, thus would take less rpm to engage.

[trashtruck12172]

guess I'm just one of those lucky few who live in a state that says engine displacement doesn't matter, if it goes faster than 30, it's a motorcycle and you'll need a license.

[Alleyoop]

Oct 1, 2015 19:26:06 GMT -6 jaxrhapsody said:

Oct 1, 2015 13:56:22 GMT -6 Alleyoop said:

I do not understand your question?

Stronger springs REQUIRE HIGHER RPMS for the pads top engage the BELL. Don't forget it is CENTRIFUGAL FORCE that throws the PADS out to grab the bell which in turn turns your wheel. So the CLUTCH PULLEY has to turn faster which means HIGHER RPMS.

I thought 1500 springs woule be weaker than stock, thus would take less rpm to engage.

OEM SPRINGS are WEAKER they are rated 700-800 All your performance springs are 1000,1500,2000, that also applies to the CONTRA Spring.

[terrigno]

I have an aftermarket exhaust so no need to drill the holes in it. But this spring talk might be to much for me to accomplish lol

[jaxrhapsody]

Oct 1, 2015 20:16:35 GMT -6 Alleyoop said:

Oct 1, 2015 19:26:06 GMT -6 jaxrhapsody said:

I thought 1500 springs woule be weaker than stock, thus would take less rpm to engage.

OEM SPRINGS are WEAKER they are rated 700-800 All your performance springs are 1000,1500,2000, that also applies to the CONTRA Spring.

Oh, okay, see I thought[for some reason] that the oem springs were rated at a higher rpm, because how slow they can appewr to accelerate. Now that I know the truth, I have to ask; what the benefit of higher rpm clutch springs, kinda like a high stall torque convertor for a drag car?

This changes my cvt plan by some margin. Maybe I should just focus on the weights to get it to shift faster, get better clutches, and transfer my stock springs. So I'm guessing heavier rollernweights makes the cvt shift faster as well?

Sorry for kinda taking over the thread, OP, things about the cvt are not what I thought they were.

[Alleyoop]

Heavier weights shift faster BUT you will loose rpms.
Lighter weights shift slower BUT you gain rpms.

Rollers for every gram up or down the rpms change by 500-600
Sliders for every gram up or down the rpms change by 200-350

That is why a TACH is very important to tune your motor and cvt for the best performance otherwise you are guessing on what you need and buying stuff you don't need or that makes things worse.

AND YES STRONGER SPRINGS are like a car with a clutch put the clutch in and get the rpms up and then pop the clutch and away you go and or like a stall torque converter on a drag car.