Post by trashtruck12172 on Feb 14, 2016 22:29:43 GMT -6
Important tire safety tip. I always use a hand pump instead of compressed air for any tire. ( Yes, even car tires). The reason for this is my friend was working on a truck tire when it exploded and sent parts of him across the shop. Please be careful when inflating tires.
Alright so I got my new speedometer cable, 38" and 14mm sleeve. It fits PERFECT... I'm so happy. It's so satisfying to do the work yourself and then SEE IT WORK. I also put in the new clutch today.
Question... is cleaning your belt in soap+water bad?... because ever since I did mine a month or 2 ago, the belt has been really noisy, like a rubbery sound as it goes around. I'm afraid the belt could be wearing down.
I also can't seem to get any faster than 55mph. My max was 61mph consistently before, and the only changes have been, new clutch and temporarily changing to rollers FROM sliders. Still have Koso variator in, and the smaller sized mismatched fan pulley. Can a new freshly put in clutch cause temporary loss of top speed until it breaks in?
I know also my air filter desperately needs done too... it's now slowly leaking gas from its hoses, all over the CVT cover. My bike was backed into and knocked over about a week ago... could be very related! Going to get on cleaning that ASAP because gas did leak out and I think it might've got in there.
Well the Dr Pulley sliders are on the way. I'm trying to keep each job separate so I know how each thing affects the performance. If I get those sliders in and still can't top 55mph, then I know it's gotta be something else. I'll continue to update as I go!
Currently with 13g rollers + Koso variator: I managed to hit 57 or 58 mph which is better than 55, but it felt awfully hard to get there. I think the new clutch needed to break-in which might explain the 55 top speed in my last post, so I think 58 is absolute max I can get with this setup. I believe I'm being limited by the rollers. I'm thinking the rollers definitely aren't pushing the belt as high up as the sliders did, so I run out of gearing much sooner and it needs noticeably more "effort" starting at 40-43mph.
I just received the Dr Pulley sliders and will put them in now and update soon. After putting them in, I should be back to at least consistent 61mph (indicated).
Just a side note, I weighed the Dr Pulley sliders and they're all amazingly EXACTLY 12.0 grams. I was starting to think my scale was inaccurate because the generic ones I've gotten have all been +-0.2
Okay I'm not sure what's going on but I can't even hit 55mph indicated... so I've lost 6mph top end in the last 2 months. Trying to figure out why. Currently Koso variator + 12g Dr Pulley sliders + new clutch.
So I'm wondering: - New clutch giving less top speed somehow? - Sliders slightly too light on my bike? (WOT goes to 6.7k RPM, cruises 40mph at 5.6k rpm) - My variator fan is SMALLER... that could be why 12g is too light for me?? - Belt wearing out? I did clean it with soap+water+paper towel (oops? or is that okay?)
Not sure where to look first... seems trying a new belt would be the best place to start, as that will limit the top speed on any setup if the belt is worn. Any thoughts?
It appears the brand of sliders DOES affect results unfortunately. 12g cheap sliders gave me a heavier feel than 12g Dr Pulley sliders. The weird part is, the cheap sliders are varying from 11.8g to 12.0g, so if anything they're slightly lighter in weight but yet give a heavier feel with the RPMs.
What I do not understand is you say the Fan pulley is UNDERSIDED?? I have yet found a 150 or even a 50cc with a smaller fan than the Variator!! The fan pulley for the 150s are normally approx 4 1/2 inchs in diameter equivalent to your 115mm performance variators.
Now the NEW FAN PULLEY you bought should be at LEAST 4 1/2 inchs in diameter.
Rosie, the important thing to ALWAYS notice are the RPMS for each experiment. The RPMS is the MAIN thing that will get you more top or less top end.
The thing is to get the belt to climb as high as possible on the Variator to create a bigger wheel. So there will be a give and take situation with rpms and weights. Not only that but the Variators also come into play. Some Variators will give you strong low end and mid-range but not top end and then some will give you strong top end but sluggish low end to mid range. I know you have been experimenting but NEVER wash a belt with soap,m it will soak into the belt and make it slip which by the way may be why your top end has dropped some.
To get my rpms down and cruise at much lower rpms than just about anybody else I changed the tranny gears. But in my case I could do that since I added more horses to the motor 30 more ccs. So with more horses I could still have strong low end and mid range and great top end at very low rpms. If someone puts in taller tranny gears with a stock motor they will get sluggish starts and slower reaching mid range AND may also loose top end due to not enough power to pull the taller gearing.
Yes... my fan pulley is the same size as my stock variator which is definitely smaller than the 115mm variator. My local scooter shop carries them. What you have seen on 150s is probably THIS (click for picture), but what I have is THIS. It's definitely hard to find a picture of the one I have!
If I match the fan pulley size to the variator, would that lower my RPMs and be similar to going heavier on the sliders? I understand they should be matching in the first place for best results, so hoping I can do 2 birds with 1 stone that way. I'm thinking 12g sliders would probably be correct if I had them matching. What do you think?
Another thing about my belt.. just recently it's started flapping around at idle (1.5k rpm). It clacks around when I first hit the gas, then evens out. This is what my 5 year old OEM belt was doing. Also the lettering on the top of the belt edges are almost completely rubbed off.
Could the constant changing of variators have killed my belt? I noticed after putting in the new clutch there was a LOAD of black dust (belt?) in the CVT cover a couple days later.
Last Edit: Feb 29, 2016 15:07:05 GMT -6 by rosiemoto
AH I see that the variator that is on there is one they say helps cool the belt have the fan edges open. Yes get rid of that fan pulley and get one that has a full face pulley. Now to find out if a full face fan pulley will do you any good MARK your current Variator 1/2 by 1/2 with a marker and run it at WOT and see how high the belt climbed.
Here is my PRODIGY 115mm variator before the BBK, notice the mark left and how high it climbed on a 115mm(4 1/2 inchs) diameter than the 107mm OEM(4 inchs), the belt climbed about 3/8 of an inch producing more top end
Cool, I'll do that in 2 different spots like in your picture, and this time not on the center stand!
Is the belt flapping at idle and initial takeoff normal or sign of worn belt? (I quickly edited in about that in my last post, you probably didn't see it)
I really think it is due to the SOAP SOAKING and it has stretched a little. How high does the belt sit on the CLUTCH PULLEY? If near the edge and you can put your finger in the top center and push down and it has more than 1/2 inch play then it is stretched.
Just changed the belt... YEAH it was definitely loose/stretched!! Sounds much smoother at idle with the new belt now. Short video comparing old and new belts:
While I was out there with the bike on center stand, just as a quick test I revved it up until the belt got as far as it would go. When I let OFF the acceleration, the belt goes noticeably HIGHER/closer to the edge for a little bit until the revs drop down and belt goes back down. Does that mean anything or is that normal? I'm afraid weights could be too light? I feel it too while riding, RPMs drop a lot (about 1,000rpm) when I let off gas from a cruise.
I'll be testing my top speed with the new belt probably tomorrow.
Great!! Good video showing the play on he belt and then nice and taught with new belt.
That belt climbing when letting go of the throttle IF you noticed and listen THE RPMS WENT UP a little before dropping that is why the belt moved up a little more. What that tells me it is running a little LEAN on the top end it needs maybe a 1/4 to 1/2 turn COUNTER CLOCKWISE turn on the Fuel ratio mixture. Alleyoop
On the stand, it doesn't raise RPM at all when letting off the throttle completely, or when easing off the throttle. RPM follows how much I twist the throttle all the way through the range... no dead spots or power spikes that I can tell. The belt hits "top gear" only when I let off the throttle from medium to high revs. Seems that shouldn't happen with the belt... I just checked a couple YouTube videos of variators working... their belt stays put after they let off the gas.
In my opinion I think my current setup is a little too light. I think it could be "caused by" the smaller variator fan that I've got, so I'm getting unexpected/different results. I'm hoping once I get the new 115mm fan in, it'll lower my RPMs and then the 12g sliders should work great then, and I'll get even higher top speed than before. I guess with the smaller variator fan, it would like 14g sliders. This is all assuming my observations are right. I could be completely wrong... hopefully not, but worst case, after putting the 115mm fan in, the 12g sliders would still be too light and won't push the belt any farther than it does with the small fan I've got now, and therefore no change... in that case I'd have to go 14g sliders I think. So really hoping the right size fan will fix it all!EDIT: Just did first ride with new belt, and the new belt fixed ALL the problems I believe! RPM is good now, and the sliders don't feel "too light" anymore. I didn't know the belt could influence the whole speed/rpm range... I thought it only affected the top end. Haven't had a chance for top speed test yet, but 50mph cruise is EFFORTLESS again, I love it! It cruises 50mph @ 6k rpm.
Just remembered something. I think I could have stretched out the belt (more) badly when I took off the old clutch. I thought I'd be lazy and not take off the variator to get the belt off. Turns out you can't get the belt off from clutch end without taking the whole clutch out... which meant I was pulling on the clutch and belt while saying "COME ON, JUST ONE MORE INCH AND YOU'RE OFF, IT SHOULDN'T HURT!" ...Stretttchhh. Well I won't do THAT again! Many lessons learned.
The 115mm fan pulley will be here in about a week, which gives me time to get used to the new belt and performance. I can't wait to try it and see how that plays into things.
Last Edit: Mar 1, 2016 14:24:10 GMT -6 by rosiemoto
FANTASTIC!! Well with the belt that loose it was all over the place sometimes slipping sometimes grabbing and making you loose top end to boot. Now before you get the bigger variator fan pulley MARK your curent setup and see how high the belt climbs so you can accurately get a good comparison when you put on the bigger fan pulley. Then mark it again opposite the old mark so you can see the difference if any. Alleyoop
..BAD TO THE BONE..
