. By rosiemoto (Read 11,514 times)

[rosiemoto]

Nov 21, 2015 19:11:12 GMT -6 richardv said:

Thank you for all the information. Well written and informative. I would think you could be a quality assurance technician in life.
As I have said I'm currently investigating the purchase of a scooter at this time. Even trying to decide on which size I should start with.
Thanks again,
Richard

P.S. I will consider this report a birthday present. At 3:33am Monday I turn 66.

Awesome, I'm glad you found it helpful! Would this be your first bike? Me personally, I don't think I could handle a 50cc scooter. When I see those people on their 50cc scooters holding up a line of traffic and going 10 under the limit, I just think how lucky I was to end up with something faster. You probably need the motorcycle endorsement before you can ride a faster scooter I guess depending on your area.

Here's a video of mine that might give you an idea of what to expect from a 150cc scooter on 40-45mph roads, although this video was made before I did my belt and rollers, so it's a bit quicker at those higher speeds now. This is the same bike I started with 5 years ago and has been my main and only vehicle. For the first year I never took it over 25 and rode it "like a Grandma", so it's easy to go slow speeds as well. Then, whenever you feel you want to go faster, it's there! Just my opinion.

[rosiemoto]

Nov 21, 2015 19:34:06 GMT -6 Alleyoop said:

Heavy acceleration didn't really change RPM but I remember it still pulling strong even at 4k RPM, like high torque? It had a very obvious RPM shift around 15mph, and after that shift, it was almost like it was stuck in gear and would change revs only according to mph, not throttle.

That is the way a well tuned CVT and motor should work. You crank the throttle and it should rev up to around 6K and hold. All this time it is accelerating and when it gets to around 40mph the belt has now reached the max on the pulley. Once this happens(NOW REMEMBER YOU STILL HAVE THE THROTTLE WIDE OPEN) the motor now starts to build more rpms and as the RPMS are climbing you are gaining more speed.

You can test this out and find out if you have your CVT and motor tuned right. If your RPMS climb and drop and climb and drop YOUR WEIGHTS are to heavy. If on the other hand your RPMS CLIMB really high right away then YOUR WEIGHTS are to light.
Alleyoop

What do you think caused my bike to act that way when it was new/stock? I mean that shift at 15mph and no increase of RPM with throttle. Did it just come with crazy heavy rollers, or what do you think? It doesn't do that now, but I'm just super curious why my bike's variator acted so different to others when I first got it.

[Alleyoop]

It is common to find heavy rollers in the variator on a new scoots. They set them up to do at least 50mph.

[richardv]

Real nice video. My first bike was a '47 Harely 45 (750cc) that your scooter could blow away. I have increased the size over time. To include a 750 Honda Chopper, Three Gold Wings (1200, 1500 & 1800) and the last was a Honda VF750C Magna.


That engine was used in there racing machine and could get to 150mph very fast.

Right now I'm looking into a scooter for local travel. Like yours would be the smallest because I live near the edge of the city and love the country roads.

[jct842]

Rosie, in the video you mention scooter seems to run better with full tank of gas. The only thing different is more gas in tank would give slightly higher pressure since yours is gravity feed. Could be the carb float could be reset a bit higher so it would run the same as full tank when on a 1/4 tank.

[rosiemoto]

Yeah when I said it runs better on full tank, I mean like the throttle response is more linear and more power at lower throttle. It's actually an older video and I've been using ethanol free gas to help stop that problem, but it still does it when my bike isn't fully warmed up. Thank you for the advice.

Could this have anything to do with this: when I first got my bike and went through its first winter, I would let it start and sit until the idle came down... well, when I went to accelerate, it would go NOWHERE. If I gave it like 5% throttle it would do that, and gradually as it warmed up more, it would accept higher and higher throttle from me. But otherwise it would just go back to normal idle even at 100% throttle... it didn't die or stall.

I'm gonna find out soon while it's getting colder out, if my bike still does this in the cold. (40f-50f)

[trashtruck12172]

40f-50f isn't cold. here it can get to -20f/-30f and some folks switch to a lighter weight oil for the winter. you can try a 10w30 and see what happens.

[Alleyoop]

Living in Florida with it being hot the carbs need to be set on the LEAN side for the motors to run good. Dropping down below 60 degress the motors now need more fuel and need to be richened up. But if the temps are only far and few between you can just live with the poor running at those temps which will not last long. OR richen it up a little maybe 1/4-1/2 turn and have the motor run much better in both extremes.
What I really believe is the carb is currently set TOO LEAN in the first place and is why it acts up that way when the temps drop that far.
Alleyoop

[rosiemoto]

Nov 23, 2015 11:08:47 GMT -6 Alleyoop said:

Living in Florida with it being hot the carbs need to be set on the LEAN side for the motors to run good. Dropping down below 60 degress the motors now need more fuel and need to be richened up. But if the temps are only far and few between you can just live with the poor running at those temps which will not last long. OR richen it up a little maybe 1/4-1/2 turn and have the motor run much better in both extremes.
What I really believe is the carb is currently set TOO LEAN in the first place and is why it acts up that way when the temps drop that far.
Alleyoop

I think that's true, set too lean. It does give me like 30% chance of a backfire from high revs/speed when I let off the throttle. How would I adjust that? I heard you can just turn the fuel mixture screw on the carb until the RPM reaches its highest point? Does bike need fully warmed up or just until the enricher is done? I notice it has always idled low after the enricher is done, until the bike warms up about 5-10 minutes into the ride, then it returns to where I have it set. If it's colder out, it idles higher too.

trashtruck12172 said:
40f-50f isn't cold. here it can get to -20f/-30f and some folks switch to a lighter weight oil for the winter. you can try a 10w30 and see what happens.

I'm in Florida... 70f is getting cold to me!! When it's in the 50s and especially 40s I'm all bundled up with a big coat, scarf, 2 pairs of gloves... I had a whole family from up north tell me the same thing, "40 isn't cold!!" and now that they've lived here in FL for a few years, they sound like me. So disclaimer, when I say cold, I mean relative to Florida...lol.

[Alleyoop]

The way it is set a little on the LEAN side it WILL idle higher when colder. Now that its colder the motor needs more fuel so LEAN MEANS HIGHER IDLE.

You adjust the Fuel Ratio Mixture after the enricher cuts off the extra fuel, so after 5-10 minutes of idling is a good time.
The motor should idle the smoothest anywhere from 1500-1800 rpms and the rear wheel NOT SPINNING AFTER the enricher cuts off the extra fuel. When you first start it COLD DEPENDING on the temp outside it will either IDLE LOW(IF TEMPS ARE HIGH) or HIGH(IF TEMP ARE COLD). If you live where the temps rarely get below 60-70% you do NOT NEED THE ENRICHER it is to much fuel. What I did is I put on a MANUAL ENRICHER so only in COLD weather I feed it extra fuel for starting, I did not like smelling fuel starting it in the summer and waiting for the enricher to cut off the extra fuel.

If it backfires when letting off the throttle you have an AIR LEAK, and usually the leak is by the FLANGE where the pipe connects to the motor. Now if it POPs when coming down to IDLE from high revs that is telling you it is a little LEAN. One of two things Carb is set to LEAN and or the IDLE is set to low.
Alleyoop

If your carb has two screws holding the ENRICHER HOLDER onto the carb you can fix it so no extra fuel will be feed by doing the following and leaving everything else in tack.

[rosiemoto]

Thank you for the info Alleyoop. New question now, may or may not be related...

I'm able to hit 61 (indicated) as a top speed now, but I just was out riding in very windy weather and took it for a top speed test going WITH the wind. It seems to just limit itself around 60. It feels similar to how it was limited to 45 when I had my worn out belt in it. I feel power at 50-55 but soon as the revs get above 7000, it seems to lose power quickly and also makes a loud vibrating sound. The vibrating started when a shop put in a used variator.

If I'm not going with the wind I can still reach 60. That's why it's weird to me that going with strong wind pushing me doesn't make my top speed increase at all. It's like it loses power after 7000 rpm or something?

It's at 7500rpm @ 60mph. Indicated 60 is more like 55 with gps.

Would a performance variator be something I could use now? If you want, I can video demonstrate everything I just said so you can see exactly what I mean.

[Alleyoop]

Are you sure the motor is not making a BRAT sound then the vibrations start? Or is the motor running normal no different sounds are being emitted.

Vibration when it reachs the max speed could be the Variator or it could be the gearing has reached its max. Very common to get vibrations when you have run out of gearing.

I was going to mention the speeds you are seeing on the speedo are NOT the real mph. The Chino Speedos are all off and can register 10%-20%+ on the high side. What makes them register closer to true mph is the size of the tires. It seems having a 13" tire in the front where the speedo hub attachs registers a more true to life mph.

You could get a Performance Variator which are 4 1/2 inchs in Diameter compared to the OEM 4 inchs in diameter. That would give you the ability to get the belt climb higher in the variator and creating a bigger wheel. Remember A bigger wheel will turn a smaller wheel more times per revolutions and that means the smaller wheel is the Clutch pulley which in turn turns your rear wheel.
Alleyoop

[rosiemoto]

Yes, just a vibration near top speed, no change in engine sound.

Some questions about performance variator:

- Is my Gates Powerlink belt fine for the performance variator? I heard you need a good belt when putting performance parts in.

- Will this generally lower rpm, or mainly at top end?

- Will it need different size rollers (18x14?)

[Alleyoop]

Belt is fine,
Roller Size is the same that does not change (18x14).

Performance Variators are for more top end speed. Now to get more top end speed you need to get the REAR WHEEL to spin faster. So a bigger wheel(Variator) turning a smaller wheel(Clutch Pulley) gets you more top end speed. BUT there is a gotcha it is not straight forward.
1. To turn the Rear Pulley faster you need to.
A. Get a bigger Variator and get the belt to climb higher.
B. Get the Variator to turn faster (more RPMS)

So if you want more top end at a lower RPM it is hard to achieve with just Heavier Weights to get the belt to climb higher on the Variator. The reason is you can get the belt to climb higher with heavier weights BUT now your RPMS well be less and MAY not be enough to get you any more top end speed.
So the thing to then do is Put in Taller Gears, that way with less RPMS you can have the rear wheel turn faster.

So the QUESTION to you is WHAT are you looking for? It seems to me your scoot is running rather well and has good top end speed for a 150 that is not modded.

A STOCK 150 running a real 55mph are hard to come by, most will do 50-52 or so. So you have a rare 150 that scoots rather well.

Alleyoop

[rosiemoto]

Okay that makes sense. I'll look back through this thread to see if you recommended me a specific variator because I think you might have? If not, could you?

I see modded 50cc scooters that get up to 45 or 50 and I start thinking why does mine only go 10 mph faster top end, when mine accelerates like 2x or 3x faster? I have always felt it has the power to go faster but like it's being held back.

My main motivation is because I'm commonly on the faster streets and cruise 45-55 mph. I want the breathing room to pass cars if I need to. I'm able to keep up at least now though on 50mph streets so I've been pretty excited about that. But then when I'm cruising at 50 @ 30% throttle, it feels like it could go another 15-20mph faster, but the power just quickly ramps off suddenly.

I hit 61 indicated mph against the wind, and then today I rode with the wind and still only got 61 max. Only difference was it got there a but quicker.