Few issues with new scooter 50cc QMB139 By kilo56 (Read 3,295 times)

[kilo56]

So I got a scooter brand new and now has about 400km on it.

It's a VIP Tao Tao (ya i know chinese scoots are bad)

Anyway,

First issue:

When it sits overnight I go to start it in the morning it sounds like it has trouble starting. It makes a winding noise the first time I press the starter button, I release and try again then it sounds like it catches something and begins to start but sounds like something is grinding badly.

Second issue:

After it has started the idle is a bit low to begin with and when I gas it quick it bogs and gets close to dying. I can gas it slowly and it won't bog. After about 10 min of letting it sit there idling it idles normally and no bogging occurs. Runs perfectly fine.

Third Issue:

Someone tried to (from what I think) steal my belt. I went to start it one day and the belt cover was missing screws and was partially off. I took it to the shop I bought it from and they supposedly fixed it. Now when I go over bumps that cause a sudden dip, I hear what sounds like a clanking noise like something is loose inside.

Any help would be appreciated.

Also I am not going back to that shop because apparently they don't know what they are doing because it should have been fixed the first time so I would rather just do it my self.

I'm starting a new job next monday and would like to get these issues worked out before I start using my scooter on a daily basis.

Thanks.

[Alleyoop]

Nov 27, 2012 11:37:26 GMT -6 kilo56 said:

So I got a scooter brand new and now has about 400km on it.

It's a VIP Tao Tao (ya i know chinese scoots are bad)

Anyway,

First issue:

When it sits overnight I go to start it in the morning it sounds like it has trouble starting. It makes a winding noise the first time I press the starter button, I release and try again then it sounds like it catches something and begins to start but sounds like something is grinding badly.

Second issue:

After it has started the idle is a bit low to begin with and when I gas it quick it bogs and gets close to dying. I can gas it slowly and it won't bog. After about 10 min of letting it sit there idling it idles normally and no bogging occurs. Runs perfectly fine.

Third Issue:

Someone tried to (from what I think) steal my belt. I went to start it one day and the belt cover was missing screws and was partially off. I took it to the shop I bought it from and they supposedly fixed it. Now when I go over bumps that cause a sudden dip, I hear what sounds like a clanking noise like something is loose inside.

Any help would be appreciated.

Also I am not going back to that shop because apparently they don't know what they are doing because it should have been fixed the first time so I would rather just do it my self.

I'm starting a new job next monday and would like to get these issues worked out before I start using my scooter on a daily basis.

Thanks.

#1,
When first starting is the scoot outside or in garage or what. But that appears to be a COLD START and the battery is a little weak. The starter is NOT spinning the BENDIX fast enough to throw it out and grab the Fan teeth to turn the crank and that is what your hearing the grinding or buzzing.

#2,
Raise the Idle up to at least to 1500 rpms(REAR WHEEL SHOULD NOT BE SPINNING) that is the IDLE SPEED SCREW it has a SPRING on it you cannot miss it. It is on the Side that your throttle cable is. Turn that screw CLOCKWISE just a little does not take much to raise the IDLE.

#3,
BUMMER, check if the KICKSTARTER sticking out is NOT banging against the CVT cover. If you think it is inside the CVT cover then you will have to take the COVER off and check for anything loose.
You can take a picture or video of the inside when you take the cover off and put it up so we can see. Maybe we can spot something that they messed up.
Alleyoop

[kilo56]

Thanks for the reply.

#1 The scooter sits outside my apartment door. It sort of does sound like the battery is weak. Do these scoots have alternators? Because after it runs for a while, turn it off, go into a store, come out and start it, it starts right up no prob.

Must be the damn alarm. Are those easy to remove? Is it an unplug kind of thing and reconnect kind of thing? I don't even arm it because it's way too sensitive.

#2 My idle is around 2900 is that too high? I set it to where the wheel is baaaarely turning. If I set the idle to anything below 2000 it sounds like its almost going to die. Is the idle being set that high causing the initial bog?

#3 It's definitely not the kick starter, it must be something inside. =(

[Alleyoop]

Nov 27, 2012 12:44:00 GMT -6 kilo56 said:

Thanks for the reply.

#1 The scooter sits outside my apartment door. It sort of does sound like the battery is weak. Do these scoots have alternators? Because after it runs for a while, turn it off, go into a store, come out and starts it starts right up no prob.

#2 My idle is around 2900 is that too high? I set it to where the wheel is baaaarely turning. If I set the idle to anything below 2000 it sounds like its almost going to die. Is the idle being set that high causing the initial bog?

#3 It's definitely not the kick starter, it must be something inside. =(

#1,
Yes they usually put in cheap batteries and low AMPS, Check the battery and see How many AMPS it is. If it is lower than a 7amp battery that is probably the problem. It may even be a 4amp one.
So for cold starts I would suggest getting a good 7AMP battery, just measure the storage compartment, Length, Width and Height and get one with high CCAs(COLD CRANKING AMPS). If it sits outside in the cold you need a stronger battery.

#2,
Yes 2900 is to high, but that is not what is causeing the bogging.

You need to adjust your FUEL RATIO MIXTURE screw. That is the Screw to the LEFT near where the Carb connects to the INTAKE MANIFOLD.

FIRST START IT UP and let it WARM UP at least 5 minutes IDLEING. Then LOWER the IDLE down.

Then here is how to set your Fuel Ratio and take your time:

YOU WANT TO GET THE HIGHEST IDLE OUT OF THE FUEL RATIO MIXTURE:


So from where it is currently set FIRST TRY richening it up more:

1. Turn it 1/4 turn Counter Clockwise and wait about 10 seconds to allow the motor to catch up with the new setting. LISTEN or look at your tach:
a. If the IDLE GOES UP REPEAT #1, UNTIL the IDLE does not change or drops a little THEN TURN THE SCREW CLOCKWISE 1/8 and that should be the highest IDLE from the Fuel Ratio Mixture and go to #3.

**** IF ON THE FIRST 1/4 TURN COUNTER CLOCKWISE THE IDLE GOES DOWN OR DOES NOTHING, TURN IT CLOCKWISE 1/4 TURN TO GET IT BACK TO WHERE IT WAS AND GO TO #2****

2. Turn it 1/4 turn Clockwise and wait about 10 seconds to allow the motor to catch up with the new setting. LISTEN or look at your tach:
a. If the IDLE GOES UP REPEAT #2, UNTIL the IDLE does not change or drops a little THEN TURN THE SCREW COUNTER CLOCKWISE 1/8 and that should be the highest IDLE from the Fuel Ratio Mixture and go to #3.

3. If the idle is TO HIGH NOW LOWER the IDLE USING the IDLE SPEED SCREW so that your REAR WHEEL JUST WANTS TO TURN... Go to #4.

4. Now give the Throttle a quick twist and let go, the Motor should Rev up nice with no sputtering or hesitation and come back down to where you set the idle.

*** IF TURNING THE FUEL RATIO SCREW Clockwise or Counter Clockwise DOES NOTHING Then the Pilot Jet AND OR ITS PASSAGE ARE Clogged and you will have to clean the Jet and CLEAR OUT THE PASSAGE. And go through the Procedure again***


#3,
BUMMER, need to take the CVT cover off and take pictures or VIDEO of the inside AND the INSIDE OF THE COVER.
Alleyoop

[kilo56]

#1 ok i'll check the battery.


#2 damn, my carb is one of those new ones where they cap the the fuel ratio screw. It has a brass cap on it and from looking around I would need to drill through it to access the screw. Not something I have the tools to do.

I'll lower the idle anyway to see how it reacts on the next cold start.

#3 Ok, I'll remove the cover and take pics of inside the case (engine side) and the actual cover it self.

Thanks again.

[Alleyoop]

#1,
You should get a VOLT METER they come in handy to check for electrical problems and Battery tester. They are Cheap get one for around $10.00 they are a life saver. Then you can test your battery yourself.

#2,
BUMMER, you can either drill the plug out or get an aftermarket carb which has the Screw not capped they run about $30.00. Many just do that they just get a aftermarket carb.

#3,
Cool
Alleyoop

[kilo56]

#1 you are right on the money. I checked the battery and it is a Dynavolt DTX4L-BS which is a 4amp battery.

I also unplugged the alarm just in case it was causing unnecessary drain. The scoot won't turn off with the Key anymore, but the kill switch turns it off, no biggie. If anything I can easily plug it right back in. I'm assuming I just need to find the right plug which loops the connections back to normal.

Doesn't start unless the key is in the ON position, so I'm not entirely worried about it.

Will unplugging the alarm and leaving that plug hanging harm or drain my battery?

#2 Ya, I guess that will have to wait. Unless it's an issue that may harm my motor, otherwise I can handle having to warm it up for a bit to make it run normal. I set the idle down to 2500 since anything lower sounds like it's going to die. Seems to be ok for now, not bogging but I will see when I do my next cold start tomorrow morning.

#3 I wasn't able to take any pics because I don't have the proper tools to remove the kick stand. Although I did notice the kick stand being kinda loose and when i manually pushed it down (softly) I heard the same noise I hear when hitting dips, so I'm assuming nothing is loose inside, it's just the kick stand might have a weak spring? either way i'm going to try and tie something to hit to stop it from moving downwards while hitting dips and see if that is the culprit.

Thanks again!

[Alleyoop]

Nov 27, 2012 14:09:15 GMT -6 kilo56 said:

#1 you are right on the money. I checked the battery and it is a Dynavolt DTX4L-BS which is a 4amp battery.

I also unplugged the alarm just in case it was causing unnecessary drain. The scoot won't turn off with the Key anymore, but the kill switch turns it off, no biggie. If anything I can easily plug it right back in. I'm assuming I just need to find the right plug which loops the connections back to normal.

Doesn't start unless the key is in the ON position, so I'm not entirely worried about it.

Will unplugging the alarm and leaving that plug hanging harm or drain my battery?

#2 Ya, I guess that will have to wait. Unless it's an issue that may harm my motor, otherwise I can handle having to warm it up for a bit to make it run normal. I set the idle down to 2500 since anything lower sounds like it's going to die. Seems to be ok for now, not bogging but I will see when I do my next cold start tomorrow morning.

#3 I wasn't able to take any pics because I don't have the proper tools to remove the kick stand. Although I did notice the kick stand being kinda loose and when i manually pushed it down (softly) I heard the same noise I hear when hitting dips, so I'm assuming nothing is loose inside, it's just the kick stand might have a weak spring? either way i'm going to try and tie something to hit to stop it from moving downwards while hitting dips and see if that is the culprit.

Thanks again!

Yes, those alarms are notrious for draining the battery. But now since you unplugged it does the scoot start? If not you will have to put a jumper wire on the alarm wires. But if it starts that is good. It will NOT harm or damage anything with the Alarm unplugged.

Yea that is a very weak battery, 4amp once it gets colder out it will not have enough juice to start the engine.

Well on you xmas list, put down at least a small set of socket wrenchs that go up to 18 mm or so in size, and a VOLT METER. If you have a HARBOR FRIEGHT around you or you can order online they have the stuff cheap.
Alleyoop

[kilo56]

thanks a bunch.

I have a socket screw driver, I just don't have a wrench so it's hard to get loosen some of the nuts n bolts without the extra torque from a sideways wrench. I'll look into picking one of those up, I already have the sockets. I was looking to get one any way because I need to change my gear oil and a screwdriver just doesn't give me enough torque to remove the fill screw.

Scooter starts fine with the alarm unplugged, but like you said it might need jumpers which is why the key won't turn it off but the kill switch does so i'm fine with that.

I'm going to be looking into getting a 7amp battery soon.

All in all it doesn't seem like my issues are threatening to the scooter as a short term situation.

I'm hoping lowering the idle will help with the start up bogging. If not i'll have to invest in a drill or ask a shop to drill it for me. It's just hard to find reliable service in my town.

I'll keep you informed on how it goes when I change my battery.

Quick question about the battery. I am looking around for batteries and I found some that say 7 AH .7amp. Is this the one I should be looking for? Also what is the highest amps I can get away with and not harm my scooter?

[Alleyoop]

Well you can take the carb off and take it to a garage that works on cars. For a few bucks they will drill it out for you or if they are nice they won't charge you anything. But tell them that the screw is behind the Plug the plug is not very thick maybe 1/16-1/8 so they do not drill to deep.

Yes, 7amp is good for your scoot, but fine one with HIGH CCAs(COLD CRANKING AMPS). Some have very low CCAs well under 100. So try and find a 7AMP battery with high CCAs that will help when it gets cold out. The Charging system on the scoots is Marginal at best and if you get a battery with to many amps it will not charge it. But a 7AMP should work out good for you.
See my trike in my SIG it has a BBK and Stroker Crank and it has a lot of COMPRESSION 200PSI and I have a 7AMP battery and it cranks my motor over just fine and that is the ORGINIAL BATTERY since MARCH of 2009 and it is still going strong.
Alleyoop

[Alleyoop]

Here is a nice set cheap:
www.harborfreight.com/52-piece-socket-set-35338-568.html

www.harborfreight.com/7-function-multimeter-98025.html

[kilo56]

awesome. Thanks!

I'm also looking for batteries still and it's hard to find CCA's listed in the specs. I guess I'll just have to go to a cycle shop in my area and talk to someone in person.

[Alleyoop]

Check some of the sites out here is one and notice the CCAs some have, you want something over 100ccas. Check the size of the battery so you know it will fit in the storage box.
Alleyoop
www.batterystuff.com/batteries/scooter/

[kilo56]

cool, i'm looking at this one

www.batterystuff.com/powersports-batteries/sYTX7A-BS.html

Only problem is in the description it says C.C.A.: 120 Amp/Hr: 7

Although the pictures show 6Ah on the battery. Would this be a good battery because of the 120 CCA?

[Alleyoop]

Yea that is a good one it is 7amp 120CCAs will it fit in the battery storage it has the measurements, if it does get it.
Alleyoop