Electrical Issue By jasonr (Read 1,729 times)

[jasonr]

Hi all, First time posting and just found this forum, been looking over it and looks like lots of great info on here.

I have a question on a possible bad connection, my daughter has a 2009 Sunny LB150T with the GY6 engine with 460 miles on it, We live on a cul-de-sac and the kids ride it around the neighborhood some. Occasionally the engine will just stop and not start back,It's cranking but acting like its not getting spark. It finally stopped all together a few weeks ago and I got around to looking at it today. 

 The scooter I have verified it is not a fuel problem for sure. The best I can tell I am having a bad connection or broken wire somewhere in the harness. I have checked power going to the coil and get nothing. While doing a search on the forums I came across this diagram, the red/black wire on the CDI unit has no voltage with the key on. Due to this wiring harness be completely wrapped I can only trace it so far and not really sure where the wire goes to eventually. I REALLY don't want to cut into the harness if I don't have to.

 Can someone point me in the direction of where it goes to and/or any other possible issues with connections or components that could be causing it. I checked the grounds where they attach to the frame and appear clean and tight. I have noticed sometimes if you don't move the key in just the perfect position the fuel gauge or starter will not come on, but once the fuel gauge moves up the scooter has always started. I don't believe that the ignition switch is the problem but it's still possible.

Edited:: Forgot to add:: I did remove the spark plug and ground it against the case and I do not have any spark on it.

[DrRocco]

I'm no scooter expert. I do know a little bit about electrical systems though. To me, that ignition switch seems like a dead giveaway. If you've got to "jiggle" it around to start it, my bet is that the jiggling caused by riding is causing it to die. If this were my scoot, I'd get a new ignition switch on order. Welcome to the forum by the way. I'm pretty new myself. These guys are awesome.

[Alleyoop]

The RED/BLACK wire should NOT have any voltage with the key on UNLESS YOU HAVE A DC CDI which you do NOT have. That RED/BLACK wire gets voltage when the STATOR spins. The Stator creates VAC and feeds the CDI the POWER. So your ok there.

Now just to make sure you should have a KILLSWITCH on the right handgrip make sure it is in the RUN POSITION. A lot of times by accident it gets hit and gets flipped to the OFF POSITION. Also on some scoots they have a KILLSWITCH on the SIDESTAND so make sure the sidestand is up and your trying to start it using the CENTER STAND or on it.

Now power to the IGNITION switch comes straight from the battery. You will find a thin RED wire coming off the POSITIVE POST of the battery and you will find a FUSE in line. If you have a 12V TEST LIGHT check each side of the fuse to make sure it is passing voltage through the fuse. That wire goes to the IGNITION SWITCH and the switch always has 12v even in the off position. BUT when you turn it to ON it makes connect with a BLACK WIRE and that BLACKWIRE feeds everything else that requires voltage, gauges, lights, brakes running lights etc.

To activate the starter here is how that works. You turn the key to on SQUEEZE the Brake and your stop lights should come on because the BRAKE SWITCH feeds the STOP LIGHTS as well as the SOLENOID that activates the starter. Either brake front or back squeezing the Brakes feeds the SOLENOID and the brake lights.

So if you have to wiggle the KEY SWITCH to get action on the gauges and or lights or starter then I would suspect the IGNITION SWITCH is sometimes not making good contact with the BLACK wire on the ON POSITION.
Alleyoop

[tvnacman]

Have you adjusted the valves ?

John

[jasonr]

The RED/BLACK wire should NOT have any voltage with the key on UNLESS YOU HAVE A DC CDI which you do NOT have. That RED/BLACK wire gets voltage when the STATOR spins. The Stator creates VAC and feeds the CDI the POWER. So your ok there.



1. Thank you,  that information helps a lot. Did not know that it was feed by AC volts. Theoretically  I could engage starter and checked for AC voltage at that connector?


Now just to make sure you should have a KILLSWITCH on the right handgrip make sure it is in the RUN POSITION. A lot of times by accident it gets hit and gets flipped to the OFF POSITION. Also on some scoots they have a KILLSWITCH on the SIDESTAND so make sure the sidestand is up and your trying to start it using the CENTER STAND or on it.



2. Checked the kickstand area and there is no kill switch there, Scooter does have a kill switch on the handle bars but when flipped to the off position the starter will not engage.

To activate the starter here is how that works. You turn the key to on SQUEEZE the Brake and your stop lights should come on because the BRAKE SWITCH feeds the STOP LIGHTS as well as the SOLENOID that activates the starter. Either brake front or back squeezing the Brakes feeds the SOLENOID and the brake lights.



3. Yes that is the way that I am attempting to start it, When attempting to start it, I squeeze the brake handle and the brake light comes on, otherwise the starter will not engage if the brake light is not on/ brake handle squeezed.

So if you have to wiggle the KEY SWITCH to get action on the gauges and or lights or starter then I would suspect the IGNITION SWITCH is sometimes not making good contact with the BLACK wire on the ON POSITION.
Alleyoop



4. Looks like the ignition switches are not to expensive, I will order one and install and give it a try. Do the boards have sponsors that are recommended?

Have you adjusted the valves ?

John


5. Thanks for the suggestion but my main issue is that I have no spark, starter is turning over and all other electrical (lights, turn signals and horn) are functioning with no issues. Once I get that resolved, I will check the valves

[tvnacman]

You need to post your voltage findings so we all can see what you get . Check for pulse also , all you need to do is ask if your unsure . In my banner is my phone number your welcome to call .

There are several vendors here to choose from , I became a vendor do to lack of vendor tech support .some of the vendors are getting better in general .

John

[jasonr]

Update on the ignition switch, I had a little time to work on it yesterday and pulled the front fairing off. I found the electrical portion of the ignition switch wasn't sitting in the housing flat and was causing the intermittent issue with the switch. While I had it apart I dissembled the electrical portion of the switch and checked the connections on the inside, everything tested on ohms with good continuity through the switch. I reassembled the switch and reinstalled it and now the key works great with out the intermittent issue.

But I still have the no spark situation on the spark plug. Going to start checking voltages in the next day or 2 but not sure where I should start at. I'm guessing at the CDI unit?

Tvnacman, I might take you up on that offer and might call you Monday depending on what happens with work tomorrow.

[cyborg]

wow pretty nice diagram for a new guy ,,,geez

[tvnacman]

Feel free , if I don't answer try again or text .


John

[jasonr]

Mar 2, 2014 10:05:29 GMT -6 cyborg said:

wow pretty nice diagram for a new guy ,,,geez

I found it on this forum while doing a search, so I can't take credit for it.

[Alleyoop]

Jasonr, Check the ground wire from the motor to the frame. A ground wire usually you will find attached to one of the bolts on the Valve cover going to the frame. If the ground from motor to frame is bad the spark plug will not fire.
If all that is good then its one of the following:
1. Bad Spark Plug
2. Bat Boot Cap
3. Bad coil wire connecting to the Boot cap(they screw onto the coil wire itself just like a regular screw).
4. The Coil itself
5. The CDI
6. The Pick Up Coil
7. The Stator

Alleyoop

[Bashan]

Bjorn knows that Jason, don't you robotic weinie? Ignore him, he reeks of Rotella. Do these tests, then test the switch. I'm thinking your switch is shorted and it is constantly grounding out the spark. My bud Alley posted a really nice spark test video. How did you get that girl to be in it Alley? Oh.....really....I see...I think I need a shower. Here's how the start mechanism works:

[/

This explains and tests the spark. Good luck and check back. Rich

[jasonr]

Jasonr, Check the ground wire from the motor to the frame. A ground wire usually you will find attached to one of the bolts on the Valve cover going to the frame. If the ground from motor to frame is bad the spark plug will not fire.
If all that is good then its one of the following:
1. Bad Spark Plug
2. Bat Boot Cap
3. Bad coil wire connecting to the Boot cap(they screw onto the coil wire itself just like a regular screw).
4. The Coil itself
5. The CDI
6. The Pick Up Coil
7. The Stator

Alleyoop

1. Thanks Alleyoop, checked the ground and there isn't one on the valve cover but did find one attached to the side plate of the engine and traced wire back to a bolt that had several other grounds attached to it. The connections was all good and tight.

2. I have a question about checking voltages, I checked the voltage going to the coil and had no A/C volts. I checked the RED/Black wire going to CDI and had only one volt while cranking but I'm not sure I'm getting an accurate reading because I'm not sure where to ground the "common" cable on the multimeter. I tried just the chassis and got the 1 volt then tried the green ground wire on the CDI itself and only got a 1/2 volt. Used to car and boat engines where the frame is ground for a D/C system and not sure if hooking it up the way I did will work.

3. I cut just enough of the wrapping around the wiring harness to trace a few wires and everyone I tested is passing ohms test so far.

4. So far I'm leaning toward the stator as I'm don't appear to be getting power to the CDI at all, unless I'm grounding in the wrong spot.

[tvnacman]

your looking for ac voltage on the red/black wire while cranking 40 - 120 volts ac .

John

[jasonr]

Mar 2, 2014 18:48:14 GMT -6 tvnacman said:

your looking for ac voltage on the red/black wire while cranking 40 - 120 volts ac .

John

Where do I ground for the AC tests at?