Clinician
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Post by nards on Aug 6, 2015 10:50:37 GMT -6
Well it's official, I'm finally getting that Chinese scooter.
I'd really like an SSR X6- the Zuma clone. What's the most reputable website to get this from? There are quite a few, all about the same price, and I don't know who to pick. I'm not too concerned about the absolute lowest price, I just want a hassle free transaction...
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Clinician
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Post by nards on Mar 27, 2015 11:25:50 GMT -6
Chinese scooters aren't being pursued as being "Unsafe" for two reasons. One, what two wheeled vehicle is safe? Two, because over 90% of the problems are owner inflicted. I heard all the warnings in 2008. "Change all your hoses, change your tire valves, retighten every bolts and nut on the machine, change the tires, change the spark plug, blah, blah, blah. You know what I did do? Re-tighten the bolts when I saw them coming loose. Almost seven years now and I'm still on the original hoses, tire valves (Armor All once a year people) and front tire. Heck even the original brake fluid. Good owners, good results. Bad owners,.......you figure it out. My instructions from GS Motorworks read like this. "Failure to have this vehicle inspected and assembled by a professional service facility will void any warranties written or implied" I did my own work understanding that stipulation. They still warrantied the scooter when a problem arose but they didn't have to. All online sellers include the same proviso. The Government can read. Well I mean unsafe in this way- there are horror stories all over the Internet about Chinese scooters. Some even calling them a "scourge". They are being called unsafe for being blatant safety hazards and rip offs even by two wheeled vehicle standards. Things like valve stems blowing out while at speed, wheels bending due to poor metallurgy, and frames breaking due to poor weld jobs, etc. Despite all of that, I still might pull the trigger on one. But id do it knowing that I might have to strip it to the bare frame, rebuild it (even though it's new), and replace many of the common failure parts (hoses, wiring harness, etc) along the way. |
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Clinician
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Post by nards on Mar 24, 2015 7:46:48 GMT -6
Just one thing I wonder about if Chinese scooters were so bad.
Shouldn't they be illegal? Between lemon laws and other forms of consumer protection, if these scooters are this bad/unsafe why haven't they been outlawed? I know that the low price and the fact that the customer does some of the assembly lets the distributors bypass some types of consumer protection legislation, but you'd think that if these were all an outright fraud or safety hazard, there would be more outcry against them.
How is it they've remained legal for so long being this bad?
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Clinician
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Post by nards on Mar 19, 2015 14:36:21 GMT -6
It would be interesting to see what price point a Chinese scooter manufacturer could make s high quality scooter for. I wonder if they could make a Vespa or Honda quality scooter cheaper but have the same quality.
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Clinician
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Post by nards on Mar 18, 2015 17:29:15 GMT -6
There is nothing to be confused about. It's all about probability. If you go with Chinese the probability of having problems is greater than Taiwanese.....or Japanese. I personally think you get as good, or better, value from Taiwanese than Japanese. But if you go with Chinese you don't spend as much. It just depends on your wants and your wallet. I'm really thinking going the Taiwanese scooter route. While I am intrigued by getting and then wrenching on a Chinese scooter, there are probably better mechanical projects I Can get into. If any one cares, once the money comes in that I'm waiting on, I'll ressurrect this post and let everyone know what I got. If it ends up being that Chinese scooter, I'll keep a log about it as I do the PDI, ride it, etc. Thanks for all the great responses from both sides of the fence! No matter what direction I go I look forward to being a (hopefully useful) member of this community! |
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Clinician
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Post by nards on Mar 18, 2015 13:51:18 GMT -6
I'm glad for all the responses but the only problem is I'm more confused about this decision now than when I started. Maybe I should just buy all my own parts and assemble my own scooter lol.
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Clinician
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Post by nards on Mar 18, 2015 8:57:51 GMT -6
I know about the whole Taiwanese are really ethnic Chinese thing... But in the scooter world they sound like an entirely different species altogether. With the Chinese scooters being cavemen and Tawanese scoots being some advanced alien race.
Ok, enough metaphors.
Before I totally close the door on getting a Chinese scooter altogether, i really wish I could hear/find some success stories with Chinese scoots. There apparently are people who've had them be reasonably reliable vehicles and all. What did they do to get to that point? Was it just dumb luck that they had a well built one? Was it a stellar PDI? Black magic perhaps?
I appreciate all the responses I've gotten here, and to everyone who has said , "get a Chinese scooter if you like to walk and push". I know that you've been down a rough road with yours and that you are trying to save someone else the same headache. I'm not being stubborn and ignoring valuable experienced advice... But surely there is some hope and some positive accounts out there.
Aside from outright rebuilding the scooter from the frame up right out of the crate, is it even remotely possible to make a Chinese scooter so that I have the confidence to ride it?
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Clinician
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Post by nards on Mar 17, 2015 15:57:36 GMT -6
Can't see the pic but I'm starting to turn to Taiwanese the more this thread goes on. I realize that a lot of the horror stories people have with these scoots is they are being sold to people who don't know what they are getting into... But even despite everything I could do to the Chinese scooter before I even turn it over the first time, it still won't solve many issues. Aka poor paint, cheap plastic body panels, engines that need excess valve adjustments, etc etc. not to mention Chinese scooter companies come and go- while I know the vast majority of parts are easily obtainable anywhere, any proprietary parts would be tough to come by if they broke.
Not to mention a Chinese scooter is worth $0 once I'm done with it. Sure, it costs way less, and buying an expensive scooter new will have some hardcore depreciation... But a 5 year old Kymco is worth SOMETHING, while a 5 year old Chinese scooter is worth a couple hundred at most.
I don't need something that will do a cannonball run or I can leave to my children in my will- i enjoy working on vehicles, but I don't want to buy myself an ongoing project/money pit.
Still, Chinese scoots, holy crap, the cheapness! I keep coming back to their shockingly low low prices.
So the ZNEN scooters are the best Chinese scooters from what I keep reading, but is that kind of like being valedictorian of summer school? Despite the fact they are the best Chinese scooters they are still light years behind Taiwanese ones?
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Clinician
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Post by nards on Mar 17, 2015 8:40:04 GMT -6
That's the thing, I don't mind a 16 hour, $100+ dollar PDI, I don't mind scratching my head from time to time then turning a wrench, but I don't want major repairs every 500 miles or have a scooter I have no confidence in.
It seems like buying a Chinese scooter is kind of like playing Russian roulette with 4 bullets in the revolver cylinder. Most of the time, you get unlucky and end up yet another horror story. But sometimes (maybe 1/3 of the time?) you get a decent enough Chinese scooter that, after an exhaustive PDI isn't dramatically worse than a name brand scooter.
I honestly want to go Kymco or Sym... But $$ is really a huge factor in this whole thing. Then again, I'd rather spend $2,000 than throw out a thousand...
Are there any Chinese scooters that are at least halfway decent? is there any idea what the "success rate" on Chinese scooters looks like? For me, if I've got maybe a 50/50 shot at getting a halfway reliable scooter, then it's worth the risk.
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Clinician
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Post by nards on Mar 16, 2015 19:48:36 GMT -6
I've been riding since I was was about 12-13. I never really did more than basic maint on my bikes. Oil changes and such. But I've never been afraid of a toolbox. Once I got my Roketa, I became overly familiar with all my tools, and some I had to add to the collection. A good quality PDI on a Chino scoot is taking it almost down to the frame and cleaning and making sure every electrical connection and mechanical one (nuts/bolts) are not only tight but water proofed. These bikes are simply not made to be ridden hard. And if they get wet... If you fix all the electrical connections up front, you will cut a good 50-60% of the usual problems with these things. The rest is normally mechanical failure due to inexperienced riders running WOT all the time.If I were to get another scoot, it would be a Honda or a Kymco, maybe a SYM, but I'll never own another chino scoot ( with the exception of one to convert to electric). It's just not worth the time and effort it takes to keep it running right. I will admit, I want to flog it a bit like I do my motorcycles. Granted every bike I had was made to run Wot after every stop sign every time. |
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Post by nards on Mar 15, 2015 19:19:54 GMT -6
I just can't see spending close to $4k when I can get similar for around $1k. I mean I realize most Apple products are better quality than my cheapo Android and home built PC, same is true for Sym and Kymco over my Znen, but I saved enough to go on a nice vacation by not purchasing "the best" products. I admit I'll spend a bit more on maintenance for the Chinese scooters over their lifetime than I may on one from Taiwan, but not enough to make up for the initial savings. And of course, I enjoy wrenching, which is one reason I don't own a cage, modern autos cannot be wrenched on at home without a few grand in diagnostic equipment. Bikes and scooters are the final domain for the home mechanic, other than sticking with decades old cages. This is my line of thinking exactly. I do enjoy wrenching too as I'm a mechanic with the National Guard. I also am trying to figure out exactly if the difference between Chinese and Taiwanese scooters is like comparing IPads and generic tablets. Or is it like comparing dollar store tools to professional grade ones. Like are Chinese scooters outright rolling junk that have managed to snowball thousands of people over the last ten years solely based on price? Do you have to outright dismantle the entire scooter down too a bare frame upon arrival, and rebuild it with hundreds of dollars in better parts just so it can be even in the same universe as a name brand scoot? Or are Chinese scooters somewhat more demanding and imperfect, but altogether decent assuming you do a good PDI, keep up with regular maintainance, and are willing to accept that you will have potentially have some more issues than the top quality ones. Money really is an issue here. The difference between a Kymco Agility 125 and a Chinese scoot is literally several months of groceries for my family. Unless it is dramatically better quality top to bottom, it's very hard for me to justify the extra cost. |
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Clinician
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Post by nards on Mar 14, 2015 18:56:21 GMT -6
It will be a 150cc, really just to go to work here and there plus the occasional beer run. I'll have my motorcycle anytime I need to use the highway or as a backup.
I know the quality of the Taiwanese scooters is superior. But is it worth double the price? Are they that good, or are Chines scooters, even the better ones, just that awful?
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Post by nards on Mar 12, 2015 7:56:20 GMT -6
Thanks for the good info so far. I'm trying to have reasonable expectations about what the scooter is. I know it will be maintenance heavy , and that right off the bat before I even start it up I will need to replace a host of small parts. I'm just hoping to avoid some of the major Chinese scooter horror stories I hear about.
In my research I keep seeing Znen built scooters come up as being the best Chinese built scooters. While I realize that "best Chinese scooter" might be a pretty dubious honor (sort of the NBA's sixth man award), everything I've read says they have a better likelihood of being decent than most other Chinese scoots.
So what about SSR scooters? There's very little factual info on them- but I'm to understand they are Znen scoots.
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Post by nards on Mar 11, 2015 9:02:52 GMT -6
So I'm going to be getting a Chinese scooter. I'm going into this as prepared as I can be. I already own a motorcycle so I have all the necessary tools and am not afraid to turn a wrench.
I've found a great YouTube video series about Chinese scooter PDI as well as a few very in depth help guides. I plan to follow those almost to the letter. I also know that despite this, the scooter won't be a Honda, Vespa, etc.
But I'm still stuck on which Chinese scooter brand to go with? Do I go with a higher end brand like Binitelli? Or just stay cheap with something like a Roketa?
I guess my question is, in the world of Chinese scooters, does the price difference really matter? Or are they all junk and in need of serious re-manufacturing? If so, why bother spending the extra cash.
Thanks!
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