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by: rosiemoto - Jun 22, 2016 20:16:48 GMT -6
Post by rosiemoto on Jun 22, 2016 20:16:48 GMT -6
Alright I drilled about 15 holes around the clutch on the CVT cover, it kinda looks nice actually! I'll find out tomorrow if that helps with heat (should!).
I went back to stock variator and stock rollers (13g) and the belt refuses to return to the top of the clutch pulley at idle. It used to be right up at the very top when it was ALL stock, so I'm thinking this is likely that 115mm variator fan I put in; it seems to have a different ramp angle or something, and lowers RPM by 500 all across the speed range including top speed.
By the way: K&S variator with 13g rollers gave me almost identical results as Koso variator with 11.5g sliders. I'll be trying K&S + 13g again with my stock 108mm fan instead of the 115mm fan.
I'm thinking the problem lately is possibly I've been getting *too much* increased gearing from a bigger variator AND variator fan, and my engine isn't making it past 6,500rpm at top speed. If I understand right, you want the bike to accelerate WOT at max torque (6100-6500rpm?), then eventually top out at or not too far above max horsepower (7500rpm). This is for the GY6 4-stroke.. so adjust accordingly for your type of engine. With the weird 115mm variator fan I've been using, my engine isn't able to get past 6,500rpm at top speed so maybe that's why the loss of power around 45+mph I've been getting! I guess that added with the belt wear... something like that, still trying to pinpoint it out!
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by: rosiemoto - Jun 22, 2016 9:59:30 GMT -6
Post by rosiemoto on Jun 22, 2016 9:59:30 GMT -6
I have to pause my testing for now, and possibly redo that last test - It seems no matter what I do, I'm always capped at 58mph, and the same struggle from 50 up to top speed. So I decided to measure my belt as it was looking kinda thin, and there's so much belt dust everywhere, and yep it's slightly under 19mm already! I just replaced it a few months ago and it began at slightly over 20mm! Last night I spent some hours trying to figure out why I'm going through belts so quick. Here's why I think: my CVT case gets VERY hot after a ride, even when I ride it gently. You can't EVEN touch the case for a half second, it's that hot. I had no idea there's supposedly an air filter in the front of it; I thought it was just simply holes, so I'm going to give that a look today and clean that out as it's NEVER been in in 15,000 miles! Possibly remove it if it continues to get hot. If there's NOT an air filter in there, then I'm looking into drilling holes in the back where the clutch is, to vent. I've read many posts and clutch area is where a lot of people have very good results.
On another note I believe I've improved my takeoff power in the most simple way - I cleaned my clutch bell with soap+water, rinsed, then rubbing alcohol'd the area where the clutch pads grab onto the inside, got it "squeaky clean". Then I scrubbed the clutch pads with a paper towel to get the belt dust, dirt, etc off, then alcohol'd them too (no soap or water). After all was done, I eventually gave it half throttle at a stoplight for the fun of it, and wow I didn't expect it to pull that hard from a stop. For the first time I was actually wondering if I went WOT if it would've popped a wheelie!?
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Post by rosiemoto on Jun 20, 2016 20:18:59 GMT -6
Thanks, so do you mean it's normal to have oil where the hoses connects to the airbox, cyborg? There's no dripping, and I've never seen the oil visibly moving, but whenever it does have alot of oil, I can see where a little bit has run down the outside of the CVT cover at some point. Nothing to worry about then?
What about needing to top up my oil? I keep checking the dipstick periodically and the oil level has gone down twice since my last oil change. A shop has told me about this a couple years ago, so it's not a new thing... just wondering if it's normal to have to top up a couple times per oil change?
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by: rosiemoto - Jun 20, 2016 20:13:53 GMT -6
Post by rosiemoto on Jun 20, 2016 20:13:53 GMT -6
(NOTE/edit: this test may be invalid; I'm having CVT heat issues, and my belts are "thinning" too quickly... looking into it! But I'll leave this post here for now)
Here's my results from going from 12g sliders to 11.5g sliders. In a nutshell: Low speed acceleration (0-30mph) is the same. Acceleration at midrange speed (30-45) was improved (I felt more pull). Top speed dropped 1mph, and high speed acceleration (50mph+) seemed more sluggish.
SETUP: - Koso variator - 11.5g Dr Pulley sliders (3x 11 + 3x 12) - 115mm variator fan (generic) - Stock clutch stuff (generic clutch bought from eBay) - Stock chinese belt 842-20-30 ($9)
RPM behavior: When WOT, rpm stays at 6,100 after clutch grabs, then around 30mph RPM starts climbing to 6,500 and stays, then at 45 slowly goes up again and hits 7,000 at top speed (57mph). So, RPMs from 30mph up to top speed are 500 higher than the 12g.
Throttle response: feels nicer during acceleration, but worse when cruising. Cruising feels like you're in 3rd gear instead of 4th, and needs more throttle to keep the bike up to speed. I found I was going 38mph instead of 43 with the same amount of throttle I normally cruise at. Everything about 50mph felt lacking. On the other hand, acceleration was noticeably improved in midrange speeds.
---A note about Koso: After reading a review, I now understand with a stock setup, the Koso variator may/will cause the belt to ride lower in the clutch pulley at idle/takeoff, which is like taking off in 2nd gear. This may not be a huge deal unless riding 2up like I commonly do, or if you're a 250lbs+ rider.
Final ratings (out of 5 stars): - *****: Takeoff acceleration (0-10mph @ 4,000 rpm) - *****: Low speed acceleration (10-30mph) - ***** Medium speed acceleration (30-45mph) - ***** High speed acceleration (45mph+) - ***** Top speed (57mph)
Next test: Same setup, but swapping to K&S variator + 13g rollers (yes ROLLERS next time, not sliders!)
(Eventually I'm going to compile ALL my testing info neatly in one spot like I did some pages ago, and stick it on my first post to make it easy for those interested to see and keep up with. I'll keep updating it as I do more experiments.)
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Post by rosiemoto on Jun 20, 2016 12:21:59 GMT -6
FIXED! It wasn't oil on the ground; it was gas, and it was coming of the float bowl drain screw. The screw must've been just loose enough to drip out behind my back. Probably from all the times I've taken the CVT cover on and off. Well after this hard ride I just did it was PEEING right in front of me soon as I parked it, so phew, glad that's all it was!
Though, the oil leaking out from the airbox hoses is still there. Unless tightening this screw fixed it but I doubt it. Anyone know why oil would leak out of those hoses?
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Post by rosiemoto on Jun 20, 2016 10:45:53 GMT -6
This has been happening for a while and didn't seem to be too bad, but this morning I came out to a big dried up circle of oil on the ground, and I actually had to top up my engine oil a little (was down to 1/4 on the dipstick)! The "puddle" was located straight below the airbox, and I think the oil on the ground may be coming from that little clear/yellow vent hose that dangles from the airbox (the bottom airbox hose; see pic). Every hose that comes out of the airbox is saturated with oil where it meets. Messing with their hose clamps seemed to temporarily stop the oil leaking out from the hoses before, but now it's just like it's "overflowing" from the airbox. I have the engine oil filled up to the center of the dipstick. It won't leak to the ground right after a ride; it only does it behind my back when it's been sitting. Also maybe related - this morning the bike was HARD to start and took a lot of cranking with some throttle. Until today it has been starting perfect since I did my valve adjustment about a month ago. Seems it doesn't want to start cold? Once it was warmed up it would restart no problem like nothing ever happened. Did the valve adjustment pop loose?? But what's with all this oil... This picture is from it being parked for 1 hour after a ride. I'll add more in a new post when/if I can get more:
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Post by rosiemoto on Jun 20, 2016 10:05:06 GMT -6
Thanks everyone!
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Post by rosiemoto on Jun 19, 2016 20:05:13 GMT -6
Yeah Cyborg, I think it has that play. I definitely get it when doing the front brake. Do I have the procedure right in this picture?
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Post by rosiemoto on Jun 19, 2016 20:04:39 GMT -6
If you are aware of a motorcycle shop, or a bicycle co-op, you might be able to have that spanner nut tightened(free at the co-op, probably). Hey that's cool! Thanks, I might just try that since I don't have the tools. So I could just take the bike apart and they spend 10 seconds tightening the nuts and bam!
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Post by rosiemoto on Jun 19, 2016 18:50:58 GMT -6
Hobbles, Thanks for the pictures! Mine seems to be a little different than yours and the one I saw on YouTube by Rolling Wrench. I'm not sure how to proceed... I don't have any wrenches that big. A video said use a spanner wrench, but I don't know the first thing about those, what size to get, etc. I'm assuming I'd loosen the top nut, then tighten that huge white one, then tighten the top nut back to it?
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Post by rosiemoto on Jun 19, 2016 17:15:45 GMT -6
Just took it for a ride and really tried to figure it out, and I believe now it was simply the center stand's wheel that presses up against the CVT cover! I had just tightened the nut to it (it keeps coming loose) this morning.
First I figured out it happens only when the bike bounces. Then I figured out that I hear it on the left side near the CVT, then I bounced the bike while keeping the center stand away from the frame, and the sound was gone. I let center stand back and bounced, and the grinding was back again. Repeated about 4 times to make sure and yep that's all it was! Seems like that little wheel and its nut PREFERS being loose and about to fall off.
I'm so glad that's all it was. One more question! My front tire for at least a year now has been making a humming sound that increases in pitch as I go faster. It's still the original tire and I'm at 15,000 miles. It sounds obvious that it probably needs replaced, but the tire doesn't really look all that bad? What's the humming mean?
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Post by rosiemoto on Jun 19, 2016 16:00:58 GMT -6
Oh, is there just 1 nut for the front end then?? For some reason the way he did it made me think there was 2 different nuts, but then I wasn't looking!
On the scraping, so far it's been while 2-up, and we both notice it while going slow in a parking lot. I haven't ridden solo since it started, but will do. It doesn't seem to be affected by engine RPM (happens with engine off too!). I didn't notice it at road speed at all... only scrapes in parking lot. I tried rocking the bike and jumping on the bike to bounce it, and I didn't hear any weird sounds there.
I forgot to mention, I tried manually spinning the rear wheel with bike on center stand, and it sounded normal.
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Post by rosiemoto on Jun 19, 2016 15:38:57 GMT -6
I've got 2 problems that are making my bike feel like it's about to fall apart!
One is the front end feels loose and is rocking/vibrating back and forth a little when I hit the brakes. This was fixed before by a local shop, but I wish I looked closer to see where exactly he was working on. All I know is he had to loosen the "steering alignment", then tighten the front end, then realign the steering, tighten, then put it all back together.. I hope that's a good enough description; what is needed for me to do to tighten the front end?
The other problem just started; it's a random scraping sound that can be felt by my passenger "underneat the seat", and I can feel it at the floorboard where your feet go. It has only happened at "parking lot" speeds. I killswitched the engine and it still does it while coasting. It's not really loud, but hearable over the stock exhaust, and can be felt. It's not a constant scrape, but it happens at least every 3 secs randomly "scrape.........scrape..scrape...........scrape..........." The bike doesn't seem affecting during the scrape at all. I don't see anything wrong from the outside, but I'm going to take out the seat and have a look.. I just have no idea what it could be.
All help is appreciated, thanks!
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by: rosiemoto - Jun 16, 2016 22:28:39 GMT -6
Post by rosiemoto on Jun 16, 2016 22:28:39 GMT -6
I'm back, and got some more tuning info and experimenting yet to do! I know some of you wanted me to chill out on all the tuning and just enjoy the ride, which I did for a little while, but I can't help it! Well, it's really because even with the valve adjustment and A/F mixture, I'm still stuck at 57-58mph indicated top speed, and it takes quite a while to get up to it. I feel my bike is running good, but not to its full potential. My goal is to get it back up to 61mph like I was getting when I first started all this. So, first thing I've got for you all is, regular 87 gas (+10% ethanol) was a big no-no in my bike; I lost power to the point I was beginning to think something was wrong with my bike. Also my RPMs were noticeably lower; unable to reach 6k rpm anymore. I didn't hear any pinging or strange engine sounds though. I have just gone back to 90 ethanol-free gas and still on my first tank, so I'll be back with results, but so far can already say "much better" vs the regular 87 gas. I've concluded my bike runs best on non-ethanol gas, even after the valve adjustment etc, and whenever I put gas with ethanol in, I lose the linear throttle response and it feels like I'm riding uphill. If with this 90 non-ethanol gas my bike is still stuck at this stubborn 58mph top speed, I'm going to do more variator/roller/slider tuning. If this happens (I think it will), my next experiment is going to be swapping to lighter sliders, by mixing 11s and 12s. The reason for that is, my RPMs may be a little too low (and below powerband) to reach top speed, so hopefully top speed and acceleration would both be improved. Current setup:Variator: Koso 115mm Variator fan: 115mm Roller weights: 6x Dr Pulley 12g sliders Belt: Cheap chinese 842-20-30 belt --Top speed: 58mph @ 6500 RPM --Cruise speed 40mph: 5,200 RPM --Acceleration WOT from a stop: 6100-6300 RPM Since I'm using the 115mm variator FAN now (previously 108mm), I'm getting different results (RPM all around lower by 200-400) and I'm thinking the setups that were too light in my previous tests, may work good now.
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Post by rosiemoto on May 9, 2016 16:04:32 GMT -6
Thanks for the help Alleyoop! Glad this is finally all done, valves and all. I feel like my scooter is happier.
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