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Octane?
by: go4it - Dec 21, 2011 19:40:37 GMT -6
Post by go4it on Dec 21, 2011 19:40:37 GMT -6
Octane is a flame retardent meaning it causes the the ignition to occure at a higher tempeture. This is needed in high compression engines only. The only value for you to use a higher octane is as you point out if there is no ethanol in it in your area. A lot of people (including dealers) insist on following the 90+ octane rule for Chinese scooters and cycles. But that rating is not a US rating and is actually different. It's not that the Chinese have poorer gas it's the methiod of how they messure the octane. Generally speaking you can take the Chinese rating and subtract 4 points and that is the US rating of the same fuel. So your required 90+ is actually 86+ in US octane ratings.
Bottom line the only value to running higher octane is if there's no ethanol in it. Other then that it has no value to your scooter...and it will not increase your MPG. BTW, in most areas where the temps drop significantly in winter the gas is reformulated to improve engine starting. This is one of the reasons the MPG drop off in winter.
Personally, I'd stay with the 89 octane.
Bob
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Post by go4it on Dec 19, 2011 10:25:35 GMT -6
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Post by go4it on Oct 18, 2011 12:55:12 GMT -6
You said that while having the problem a spray of ether would cause it to try to start? To me this indicates you had spark all along but yes it could have been weak. Especially if it still reacts this way now that it is starting. Personally, I think your problem was always in the carb and/or enricher. You ether finally cleaned the carb problem, got the float adjustment just right or at least for now corrected a yet to be identified problem with the enricher.
Knowing the problems I had with my 54B and now my CF Moto V5 my vote is on the enricher first then on the float. Of course dirt can always be a problem but lets face it you have a filter and it sounds like you cleaned the carb several times. Assuming you did it correctly that wasn't the problem.
It would be interesting to know what would happen if you put the old CDI back on. If it still runs then install the old coil. It's great to have it running again but personally I'd want to know for sure what the problem.
Bob
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Post by go4it on Sept 14, 2011 17:34:15 GMT -6
Honestly it does sound like the screen is having an effect. The faster your running the engine the more air moement it needs over the coil. So the fact it is working fine when idleing leads me to believe it is the screen. As I think I said I have ridden at 60+ MPH in 90+ heat and the fan always cycled on/off. Due to the colder weather you may want to just waittill next summer. But eventually I would recommend you try removing the screen as a test. I have heard of some scooter models having a problem funneling the air properly over the coil from the fan. So if the screen removal doesn't solve it I'd take a look at how the air is moving over the coil. Bob As much as I want to take it out and see if it makes a difference, I think I'll leave it now as you say because today is supposed to be the last warm day this yr. It's capable of cycling and maintaining middle of the gauge, so if it has to stay on then I agree it must be compensating for the screen. Spring time will tell I guess, unless we get some awesome days this fall. I don't know what your scooter looks like but I am just wondering if you could do a simply modification. Of course head on air flow is always going to be stronger then a diverted air flow. However, if your head on flow is being restricted by the screen then maybe a diverted flow would actually be better and prevent stone damage. What I am thinking is to creat a box in front of the radiator using the screen as a front. But allow about an inch or so between the screen and the actual frount of the radiator. This would allow for air flow from both sides, top and bottom plus through the screen. I would think this would compensate for the screen blockage. OK, now tell me that's how you already have it...LOL Bob
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Post by go4it on Sept 12, 2011 15:19:03 GMT -6
On my Roketa 250 54B the fan cycled on/off no matter how hot the temp was outside or how fast I was riding. To be the fan should not be staying on all the time expecally at only 70 degrees. If you start the motor and let it sit and idle does it cycle on/off and control the emgine temp no matter how long you let it sit? Bob If i let it idle long enough from a cold start, the fan will cycle on and off. seems to maintain the gauge at the halfway mark, so the system appears to be keeping up. Just think it shouldn't be on all the time at higher speeds in cool weather. Coolant level is holding the same. I tipped it way over when i refilled during PDI. It made a difference and got a bunch more in after that. Not sure if it would still have an air lock though. What else would it be doing if in fact there was still air in there? I would think it wouldn't be maintaining temp constantly like it is. I'll remove the screen this week and see if that makes a difference. BTW it's cooling down fast up here, only in the 60's here the other day, and the fan did not come on at all, until i stopped in the driveway at home for a second before i shut it down. So everything seems consistant with outside temp. Honestly it does sound like the screen is having an effect. The faster your running the engine the more air moement it needs over the coil. So the fact it is working fine when idleing leads me to believe it is the screen. As I think I said I have ridden at 60+ MPH in 90+ heat and the fan always cycled on/off. Due to the colder weather you may want to just waittill next summer. But eventually I would recommend you try removing the screen as a test. I have heard of some scooter models having a problem funneling the air properly over the coil from the fan. So if the screen removal doesn't solve it I'd take a look at how the air is moving over the coil. Bob
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Post by go4it on Sept 11, 2011 1:04:32 GMT -6
On my Roketa 250 54B the fan cycled on/off no matter how hot the temp was outside or how fast I was riding. To be the fan should not be staying on all the time expecally at only 70 degrees. If you start the motor and let it sit and idle does it cycle on/off and control the emgine temp no matter how long you let it sit?
Bob
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Post by go4it on Sept 11, 2011 0:59:45 GMT -6
Her's the one I bought for me 250 54B a few months ago. It mounted perfectly and ran fine. Only thing different was the drain for the float bowl had a valve on the carb instead of on the end of the hose. And the idle adjustment screw was a different angle but I was still able to adjust the idle with no problem. The scooter would not start at all with my old carb evan after cleaning. I installed this one and it popped after a few cranks. After that it started instantly on the first hit. It comes the the high speed screw already set at 2 turns out from seat which is a good place to start. You can refine that adjustment as needed. I crashed my 54B 2 days after mounting this carb (scoot was tottaled) but I actually swapped out the new carb with the old one before they towed my scooter off. I am hoping it will also fix the CF Moto V5 I just bought. If not I'll be putting the carb up for sale. Bob PS...Note. It says this carb is for a GY6 but I went by the pics and as I said it mounted perfectly and all the tubes were in the right places. ANd it even came with a new choke. cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/30mm-Carburetor-Carb-GY6-250cc-Scooter-Go-Kart-ATV-/390338014321?pt=Other_Vehicle_Parts&hash=item5ae1f56c71
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Post by go4it on Sept 3, 2011 7:10:13 GMT -6
For instance - my friend filled up his SUV in Austin with ethanol flavored gas and drove to Oklahoma CIty. It took 1 1/2 tank of gas. Because real gas was available in OK - he filled up with real gas in OK and drove home -- it only took 1 tank to get back with the real gas. I'm sure yet, but that sounds like a substantial increase in efficiency. Botton line if you can't get it what's the difference? The proper way to adjust the carb is to set the idle at the rated speed say 1800rpm when the engine is fully warmed. Now turn off the motor and turn in the HS screw to full colsed (CCW). Then reopen it to 2 full turns from the seat (CW). Now restart the motor and slowly continue to turn the HS screw 1/8 turn at a time until the motor reaches it's max speed. If needed during this process re-ajust the idle as needed (will likely require a few idle adjustments). When you reach the max speed while adjusting the HS screw you have the correct HS adjustment. Now readjust the idle to spec. and your good to go. And never mind those burns they will heal...LOL Increased octane is to reduce pre-ignition only. It does not improve fuel eff or power. Higher compression motors require it because the higher the compression the higher the burn. This causes lower octane to ingite to quickly causing per-ignition (PING). In a car or truck you can hear the ping under load. This is a good sign to use a higher octane fuel. With a scooter or motorcycle you may not be able to hear the ping. Personally I always ran 87 octane in my Roketa 250 54B and it was very happy and I got 60 to 65mpg. Bob
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Post by go4it on Sept 2, 2011 18:59:36 GMT -6
Higher octane serves one purpose and one purpose only.......To reduce preignition commonly known as ping. The higher the compression ratio the hotter the burn. The hotter the burn the easier (faster) the ignition. This causes the preignition in higher compression engine. By increasing the octain it increases the ignition temp of the fuel avoiding the preignition or ping.
There is no question the Chinese use a different method for calculating the octane level of a fuel. As I remember their 90 octane is equal to the US 87 octane. In a car you ca neasily test for the lowest octane your car can safely use. Listen for the ping. No ping under heavy load no problem. But with scoots and cycles it's not quite that easy because you may not hear the ping. But when I had my 54B it loved running on 87 octane and gave me a true 60 to 65 MPG. Which as I indicated MPG has nothing to do with the octane rating. And with only 625 miles on it when I crashed it it wasn't even broken in yet. So I would assume it would have improved. I just bought a CF Moto V5 that most people claim to get 70 to 75mpg. I'm hopping for the best. Bob
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Add On EFI
by: go4it - Aug 31, 2011 6:08:51 GMT -6
Post by go4it on Aug 31, 2011 6:08:51 GMT -6
Alley, I finally got it running. Throttle response is crisper than with a carb. Overall it has a little more pep. Fuel efficiency depends on how ya ride but still good. I ride wot most of the time. So far the only problem is the system puts a strain on the charging. If I ride on long trips It ain't bad. but lots of starts and long idles the battery needs to be charged. I am going to try a lower amp fuel pump when they are available. I am still tweeking the software for cold starts but other than that I am more than satisfied with the system.I'm going to try it on the magnum but need to order a larger injector. and flash the ecu. Bashan, you are correct this is a neat project. My trike is my hobby horse. I didn't plan on recouping my money and am not worried about fuel efficiency. I just like to tinker and try new things just to say I done it. ;D Next projects stroker crank and then turbo Roy Hi Roy, So what size engine is your tiike running? I'm very surprised that you wouldn't get better fuel eff with FI. One of the main reasons most if not all cars have it now is to improve the fuel eff. And of course auto aduust for altitude and weather conditions. And while it will not provide a significant if any added top speed it should provide a smother stronger overall power band. But because it's a generic off the shelf system as you have found it does require a bit of tweeking. The guy that did it on the 50cc had a bit of problems fitting the system in but I think that was becasuse of the small motor he was fitting it to. But in the end it sounded like he did get much better performance and fuel eff went up around 15%. bobf....Your right these projects are not for everyone nor are they intended to be. Some people want to show a $ return for their efforts and there's certainly nothing wrong with that. But as indicated by others these things are more of a hobby then anything else. That is how I would dicribe it for you. Among other things I build and ride electric bicycles and and play with scooters/motorcycles for a hobby. I can tell you I pay a lot more money on my bicycles then I will ever invest in a scooter or cycle. Hell, I have over $1,600 invested just in battery packs. Bob
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Add On EFI
by: go4it - Aug 29, 2011 19:00:47 GMT -6
Post by go4it on Aug 29, 2011 19:00:47 GMT -6
Something I picked up from an electric bike forum. Looks really cool and simple. I wonder how much it improves the prower output and fuel eff. Anyone tried something like this yet? Bob www.ecotrons.com/Small_Engine_EFI_PNP_kit.html
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Post by go4it on Aug 29, 2011 11:01:31 GMT -6
Some of you may remember I had a 60mph spill a month ago and broke my right wrist and right leg and got to many bruises and road burns to count. The scooter (2008 Roketa 250 54B) was considered a total by Start Farm ($3200 in damages). They gave me a payoff of $2366 less my 250 deductable for $2116. Not bad considering I only paid $2300 3 years eailer. I still have a soft brace on both my wrist and leg. But I say a deal on Ebay for a 2006 CF MOTO V5 motorcycle/scooter with only 618 miles on it. Problem is it didn't run.....DA, like that's gonna stop me. Bottom line it can spin and tries to start and sometimes does but can't stay running. Not a big deal I'll just strip it down and clean the fuel system real good and I'm betting it pops right over. Not in any hurry though. I still have another 3 weeks in my braces. It's hard to do anything with these things on and I really don't want to get grease all over them ether. I've read a ton of great reviews on the bike but everyone says it badly under powered. The motor is the original Honda 244cc clone from CF Moto. The bike weighs in at 361 pounds so it's not much different then my Roketa 250 54B was. Anyway I maybe looking to do some inexpensive mods to up the power a little. But I really don't what to reduce the fuel eff. If possible. So if anyone has any thoughts please pass them on to me. Bob PS... I only paid $550 for this bike
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Post by go4it on Aug 17, 2011 7:54:42 GMT -6
Go4it, Good to hear your recovering and the insurance did not put the screws to you. That is great, for a scoot they usually will total them since it would cost to much for labor to repair them as well as trying to get parts. Why not go for a Trike no need to worry about leaning and balanceing just like sitting in your tv room watching tv. Yea I know about the electric bikes my brother-in law has one with the phoenix Hub motor built into the front rim. That sucker can do 41mph. It has 72volts of power. If you twist the throttle from a stop it will throw you off the bike(HEHE). Alleyoop www.electricrider.com/crystalyte/index.htm I actually did consider the trick idea but it's just not for me. My accident was just a freak thing that would likely not happen to me again but I've kind of lost interest in scootin. I only did it for the fun of the ride not for commuting. And I really love building ebikes. Like your friend mine can flip you off it if you get to heavy on the throttle. A few months ago I bought a new motor and controller with plans to install this winter. Bitch is I have all this time right now but can't work on it. Bob
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Post by go4it on Aug 16, 2011 20:44:24 GMT -6
Some of you may remember my posting a few weeks ago saying I spilled my 2008 Roketa 250 54B. I thought I took the worse of it by braking my spraining my left wrist, breaking my right wrist and breaking my right knee and lets not forget a few good road rashes. I figured the bike was going to be maybe $100 to $200 worth of skin work and a partial paint job. Of course I figured I would take the insurance settlement and do the work myself.
Today I got a few surprises. State Farm called with a settlement offer. Now there's 2 interesting things to about this. 1) the fact that I opened the policy only 5 days before the wreck and haven't even paid the bill yet. And they agreed they will only charge me for 6 day (canceling the policy the day after the wreck). Why? Because the repair estimate came to $3150 so they totaled it. So they offered me $2,366 less my $250 deductible. I paid $2,300 for the scooter 8/08. Granted it only has 600 miles on it but still if not for my $250 deductible they would actually be paying me more then I paid for it. What a deal!! Plus they pay another $1,000 toward my medical bills which so far exceed $15,000 and I estimate will exceed $20,000 by the time it's done.
I am leaning 80% not to replace the scooter. At 64 I don't think I can afford anymore broken bones. And if not for my helmet and face mask I don't think I'd have a nose today. But we'll see what happens come spring time. But I am heavy into building electric bikes and I'm thinking to put the money that way. Yeah, I know I can fall off them too and have. LOL
Bob
PS...my bikes cost more then that scooter did when new.......
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Post by go4it on Aug 2, 2011 19:37:13 GMT -6
so sorry you got hurt. I'm in the same boat as you current- can't ride due to broken right hand. Done for the season. But there is always next year! Yes your right and looking forward to it. Sorry you did in your hand as well. Did it happen on your scooter? Bob
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