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Post by 80ccsofawesome on Oct 7, 2011 18:23:55 GMT -6
Okay, so I haven't checked the charging system but I'm pretty sure it's not electrical at this point. I say that because the other day I was in front of my apartment building struggling (as usual) to get the bike started and a helpful bystander who happened to be walking by suggested I shake the chassis of the bike to see if that helped. Sure enough, it did, though I wasn't 100% sure at the time about whether that's really what did it. Then, I tried it again this morning and it worked again, and this time it was unmistakeably due to shaking the chassis.
So, I'm not sure exactly what that implies about the starting problem, but I feel fairly confident ruling out an electrical issue at this point. I'm thinking maybe the fuel filter is clogged? If anyone else has any ideas, I'm eager to hear them.
Finally, assuming it is the fuel filter, how do I go about replacing it? My understanding is that on every CH80 model aside from the '85, the fuel filter is inside the fuel tank. Is this even replaceable?
Thanks as always for all your helpful advice guys, it is very much appreciated.
-Casey
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Post by 80ccsofawesome on Oct 5, 2011 8:05:06 GMT -6
Hi again guys... the battery is holding a charge pretty well, and the previous owner had replaced it with a brand new one just before I bought it, so I don't think it's the battery. My suspicion is that pressing the starter button so many times to get the engine started is draining the battery more than the bike is charging it, at least with the short runs for which I typically use it (one mile to work and back). Alleyoop: how long would i need to ride the bike, do you think, before i could see a bump in the measured battery voltage? and what's a healthy ratio in terms of engine run time vs. battery charge? |
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Post by 80ccsofawesome on Sept 27, 2011 6:49:43 GMT -6
Thanks guys... the battery was indeed pretty drained (measured at 11.2 on my voltmeter), and after a good trickle charge, the scooter started up like a charm.
Rich, do you think I still need to get the battery load tested?
sprocket, i have no idea how the CDI is powered! or if it even has a CDI...
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Post by 80ccsofawesome on Sept 25, 2011 21:25:31 GMT -6
This is the sound my Honda Elite CH80 scooter makes when I try to start it:
A few weeks ago I stupidly left it out in a rainstorm and the next day it wouldn't start. After charging the battery and replacing the sparkplug, it would start up, but only after several attempts at opening the throttle and pressing the starter button. I replaced the air filter, but that didn't help. I found that when cold, the engine would take 10-15 attempts before it finally started. After warming it up, it would start up with much fewer attempts, sometimes even on the first try, which had me thinking the problem was with the choke. However, one day it just quit on me altogether and wouldn't start at all. I then replaced the choke/bystarter (aka "starting enrichment thermal valve" in honda parlance) with a brand new one, but that didn't help.
Now I'm stuck. It seems like the problem is somewhere in the electrical system, but I don't know where and I don't know how to diagnose it. This is the horrible noise I've been hearing all along; maybe someone who knows more than I do can tell what's wrong from the sound? Oh, and one more detail: I don't have to complete the full circuit to get it to start. i.e., it normally requires the key turned, the brake pressed and the switch turned to "run" before pressing the starter button & opening the throttle would do anything. now, i can press the starter button and get the same godawful noise independent of whether the switch is set from "off" to "run" or if the brake is pressed. the only thing that will cut the circuit off is if the key isn't turned to the ignition position.
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Post by 80ccsofawesome on Sept 15, 2011 18:05:54 GMT -6
so can i use the collar & seal from the old rim?
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Post by 80ccsofawesome on Sept 15, 2011 16:38:59 GMT -6
yes, it does have the bearings installed. are the seal & collar necessary only for installing the bearings? if so, that would greatly simplify things.
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Post by 80ccsofawesome on Sept 14, 2011 22:23:34 GMT -6
thanks guys... after some research it seems like the autochoke is the most likely culprit. why else would the engine have trouble starting up cold, but then start up fine when it's warm? it's gotta be the choke. i read somewhere that the chokes on these scooters wear down over time and need to be replaced every few years. i have no way of knowing when the last time it was replaced, but it seems reasonable to go ahead and replace it. i found a relatively cheap one online for $30 so why not?
alleyoop, i will go ahead and check the one i have now when i remove it and let you know what it looks like.
anyway, regarding the new rim, any thoughts on the dust seal & collar issue? i don't want to take the old rim off and transfer the tire only to find out i can't install the new rim without these parts.
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Post by 80ccsofawesome on Sept 14, 2011 9:38:20 GMT -6
just a general question for the veteran gearheads... how important is it to use a torque wrench to tighten the nuts on a bike? particularly the ones connected to the wheels? i've had one guy with a lot of experience tell me you don't really need to torque the nuts, just make sure they're tight without overdoing it.
i'm trying to decide whether it's worth investing in one or not. if you think it is, do you have any recommendations for a good quality, reasonably priced one? how about beam vs. click-type vs. digital?
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Post by 80ccsofawesome on Sept 14, 2011 6:35:52 GMT -6
okay, here's the update... i replaced the air filter with a brand new one, which i'm sure is good for the bike, but it didn't do much for my starting problem. with regard to the starting problem, i've noticed an important pattern: if the bike has been sitting overnight or any other prolonged period, the next time i try to start her up is a bitch, but after it's been "primed" like this, it starts up much easier. at first i have to press the starter button and open the throttle maybe 10 or 15 times before the engine will start, but if i shut off the engine and then try to start it again, it only takes 4 or 5 tries. if i cut it and try it again, it only takes 2 or 3, and sometimes it'll start on the first try. but if i let it sit again for a day or so, the same problem happens all over again. to me this suggests some kind of problem with fuel delivery, though i don't know enough about the engine to guess intelligently as to what it could be. any ideas? re: the tire, i got a new rim, which i've been told is a stock wheel even though it's got a decent amount of light rust which i'll try to remove with naval jelly and then prime with some kind of rust repellant before installation. the tire i received, however, did not include the collar or dust seal that goes around the axle. here's a picture from the service manual to show you what i mean:  my question is, can i transfer the collar and seal from the old rim to the new one, or do i have to buy a new set to install onto the new rim? thanks again for your help & expertise guys, it is much appreciated! |
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Post by 80ccsofawesome on Aug 30, 2011 16:33:14 GMT -6
Thanks guys. I've determined that the rim is indeed bent, and I'm waiting on a new one to be shipped, hopefully by later this week. Since it seems like a huge pain in the arse to transfer tires from rim to rim, I'm going to try and remove the old rim myself, take it and the new rim to a local shop for the transfer of the tire, then install the new rim.
As for the starting problem, I'm going to start with the carb and the air filter and see if I can identify any problems there. If the air filter got water-logged or something, is there any way to clean it or do I need to buy a new filter?
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Post by 80ccsofawesome on Aug 26, 2011 19:00:08 GMT -6
so here's a video of my wheel, how bad do you think the wobble is? do i need to replace the rim? if not, can i get it straightened out?
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Post by 80ccsofawesome on Aug 26, 2011 13:32:36 GMT -6
Thanks for the feedback guys, and especially for the how-to video. In general, can the instructional how-to's on the internet for the GY6 engine (and there are a lot of them) be applied to servicing the engine that comes standard in the CH80?
Also, here's some advice I got from a guy who runs a scooter shop out in California regarding the starting problem, I'd be interested to hear what you all think:
"I'd clean the carb and the airbox, and make sure all connections to the carb are sealed and not leaking air. You can check the valves, it's not a bad idea. But bad valve clearances would not lead to the sporadic starting problems you're seeing."
And the same guy, re: the wobble:
"Your front rim is probably bent. Also, your forks could possibly be loose. Just prop the scooter up so the front wheel spins. Spin it and look for wobble in the rim or the tire. If the rim is bent more than a little bit, it will need to be replaced."
As a first step before taking it in for servicing, I was thinking about buying a torque wrench and making sure every nut connected to the front wheel & fork are tightened to the service manual specs. Does this seem reasonable or am I just wasting time?
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Post by 80ccsofawesome on Aug 24, 2011 8:56:20 GMT -6
thanks for the advice sprocket... now i just need to figure out how to set my valve gaps (or what a valve gap even is!) ;D
the front fork issue sounds more serious. is this something i can do myself or do i have to take it to a professional to get serviced?
thanks,
casey
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Post by 80ccsofawesome on Aug 23, 2011 15:31:18 GMT -6
hi all,
i'm new to the forum and recently acquired a 1987 Honda Elite CH80, which started up and ran like a charm up until a few weeks ago, when i carelessly left her out in a heavy rainstorm overnight. after that all i heard was a horrible grinding noise coming from the general area of the carburetor whenever i tried to start her up. after a week or two of research and asking around, i finally replaced the sparkplug and recharged the battery (which had drained down to around 11V, when the minimum specified by the manual is 12.3V) and that did the trick. at first.
the next morning, much to my consternation, i couldn't get her to start. i came back from work around 8 hours later thinking i had a bigger problem in the electrical system somewhere, but when i gave it another try, she started up no problem. same thing the next day and the day after that. this morning, after sitting unused for over a day, she started up again no problem. but this afternoon when i left work i again had a lot of trouble getting the engine to start, though it finally did after pressing the start button and opening the throttle about 10-15 times.
so, that's my first problem. it should go without saying that ever since she wouldn't start after that first rainstorm, i've been very diligent about making sure she's covered up before it rains, so i don't think water is playing a causative role anymore. any ideas?
my second problem is that the front wheel of the bike wobbles, somewhat unpredictably. at first it would only happen when i had some relatively heavy groceries in the basket behind the seat over the taillight (installed by the previous owner), and i figured this had something to do with the 11-pound weight maximum. however, after i got her running after the rain fiasco, i started getting a wobble with no weight in the back at all, whenever i hit 15-20 mph. that happened for a few days and then stopped happening. this morning i had her up to 35-40mph with no wobble whatsoever. however, on my ride back home she started wobbling again! again at a speed of around 15-20mph. but it didn't happen consistently at this speed because between stoplights i could get the speed up to 25-30mph sometimes without any wobble.
does this sound diagnosable to anyone? fyi, the tire pressure in both the front and rear tires is good (21psi in the front and 31psi in the back, per the maintenance manual) and there are no leaks in either tire.
sorry for the long post, and thanks in advance for any help you can offer!
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