Chargin Problem By doakley (Read 2,818 times)

[doakley]

I've got a 250A and loving it. Put 60 miles a day on it round trip to work and back everyday. I'm now at 1700 miles and only had it for five weeks!

This past weekend was upgrade weekend. Put on new Michelin Pilots with Dynabeads. What a difference in the ride. Also classed it up with pinstripe decals from PurpleHarley.com that were a breeze to put on and they look great.

I swapped out all of the lights with LED's and installed these HID lights from Ebay....All of the lights worked great and look fantastic. Can see really well at night now which is much needed since I live in the country. I took it to work today and as I pulled up in the parking lot I notice one headlight was out. I shut it off, reached up under the fairing and reseated the cable, and went to start it again. The fan came on but it wouldn't crank.

I pulled the battery out and brought it in the office. The voltage on the battery was at 11.5 volts. Charged it up to 13.6 and at the end of the day when I put it back in she started right up. When I got home tonight I put a meter on the battery while it was running. At idle I'm only showing 11.61 volts. When I run the rpm's up to about 4000 the voltage only goes up to 11.85 volts. I don't notice any dimming or brightening of the lights when the rpm's change. It seems like the voltage is low by a couple of volts.

I can't see it being because of the lights since the led's should draw less current than the old bulbs did. The HID's are the same wattage as the originals so other than startup current they shouldn't draw more either.

Any ideas? I'm running the original battery but I can't see that having an effect on the voltage at the terminals while it's running.

I'd appreciate any help I can get on this one.

[damin69]

Ok Doakly YOu basicly have the same scooter that I Cruiser and Yoster have. You need to take a look at our threads.

Read this one and you will find what I have done to get my Charging issue under control. I have had my scooter for about 3 months now and I can not tell you how many times I have had the body off of it. I have gotten so good I can pull the body off and change out the Regulator Rectifier and put it back together in less than an hour. I am getting tired of taking it apart.

So here it is.
scooterdoc.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=techtips&action=display&thread=4285

Here is my combo from Reply 21 These are my results. There are a few others.
I put the biggest results on The Oregon Motorcycle Parts Regulator Rectifier, HIDs, LEDS and Putting in the Lower amp Draw Fan. I do have a 14Ah battery on the way should be here Wed. Good luck.
There are lots of people here to help and you will find you are NOT ALONE with your Issue. We are hoping that we will all find a Stator that will put out a bit more Juice also.

Jul 16, 2010 14:19:48 GMT -6 damin69 said:

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Ok I am doing the HAPPY DANCE.. Ok Finally have the WINNING combination.

Ok results today. Drove in to work this am running Hwy speeds all the way. 5000-5200 rpms. 57-60 mph. Fan came on about half way to work. Even with Fan on voltage was Steady all the way to work at 12.7 volts. .. Ok this was a positive but not the end of test as it was only 67 degrees this am. Big test is Ride home this after noon. 88 degrees with Heat index around 96. Plus I was bucking a head wind all the way. Ok Final Results 12.68 volts when I get home. I had Both headlights and I was able to Shutoff scooter and Start it.... Now this is a HUGE FIRST.......... I have never been able to do that since I bought my Scooter..


Ok on to the Break down of the Winning Combo

1. 7" Cooling Fan www.siliconeintakes.com/product_info.php?cPath=15&products_id=1024&osCsid=2bf68d71e32fe413cbb745cbd96ddb55

2. Regulator Rectifier 100% Worth Every Penny. The very bottom one (VRRPM3H) And he will put the plugs on that match the Stock Jonway plugs. (Tony is the Man) This is the KEY to the whole charging having a Regulator that will take what is thrown at it and hold voltage when it is warm. THIS IS THE ONE.
www.oregonmotorcycleparts.com/VRRPM.html

3. 40 amp Relay. I dont have a link right now but this is a standard Relay used for running lights. Was like 4 bucks at O'Reily Autoparts.
(Used to Replace that Damn Diode)

4. Lighting upgrades to reduce Current draw. LEDs Replaced all bulbs except for instrument panel lights. (Tail/Brake, Signals and Runner lights above the headlights).

5. HID Upgrade. Stock bulbs are 35 watt and if you drive at night are not worth a crap with them you have very limited visibility. HID are about 5 times as bright as Halogen but only draw 35 Watts of power. So it was an even Trade off. But if you want to run at night This is an upgrade that is Needed the only other Alternative is to put in Halogen bulbs bright enough to run at night yes. But they also Draw 55/60 Watts each. So you end up drawing more current on a system that Already Stock can not even handle the Stock lighting. IMO HID are the best way to go. If you are in a state that you can not legally go HID. Then maybe consider modifying your lights with Halogen One side aimed with a good Low Beam bulb and the other side Aimed with a good High Beam bulb. Then you are actually cutting back on over all current draw from 70 Watts (35x2) to 55 watts Low 60 Watts High.

I think just the above would probably take care of most of the charging problems. I did go one step further and Will probably upgrade the wires that are running my Fan Circuit also.

6. Replaced wiring in the CHARGING CIRCUIT area of the wire harness with 12 guage wire.

[Cruiser]

Welcome to Scooterdoc, doakley, it sounds like you have the 244cc engine. Here's what I would do before you start throwing parts at the problem. Compare the output of the regulator/rectifier (red wire) to the voltage at the battery positive terminal. Should be no more than .9 volts difference allowing for the drop across the blocking diode. If it passes that test, then the regulator/rectifier is bad or there is a problem with the connectors at the regulator/rectifier. Could also be a bad stator, but that is unusual. You should also recheck all ground connections. If you have more than .9 volts drop and the regulator/rectifier can put out over 14 volts at 5000 rpm, then I would disconnect the blocking diode plug and jumper the pins to bypass the diode. An open blocking diode or a bad connection at the plug could stop all charging current from going to the battery. If the problem is still there, then you have a problem with the wiring between the regulator/rectifier and the battery. These suggestions are a starting point and you may be lucky enough to pinpoint the problem. There are a lot of ways to improve the marginal charging on this system and you have done some. At this point you have a no charging situation and this has to be corrected before doing things to improve the system.

[daver]

I have the twin to Cruisers bike..
Just ran into a new glitch you need to make a note on for future reference..
My fan developed a problem, and would go on anytime it wanted, warm, or cold.. So after some looking I pulled the lower rt panel, and the wire covered rad hose was crossing the contacts and completing the circut on the fan temp sensor at the lower rt front corner of the radiator.. I had no extra length to move the hose much, so just took the terminals on the sensor and bent them at opposing right angles and this gave me about an extra 1/2-3/4" inch of room in there (soft brass terminals bend easy)..
I know I have read threads before about fans running all the time, and I am guessing this might be a common problem..
Wondering if Cruiser's bike has the hose as close to the rad as mine was?...

Good luck and happy scooting all.. Dave
PS: been on vacation, and haven't gotten you a pic of those inspection covers I wrote you about, but will soon as I get a chance..

[Cruiser]

Welcome to Scooter Doc, Dave. I didn't run into that problem with my scoot. Here's a shot of the midsection in the as received condition with the original vacuum fuel pump still installed.

[doakley]

Thanks for the suggestions so far. I'll post pics of the scooter once I put it back together.

I came home tonight and took all the covers off. Checked every plug I could find for loose connections. Found a couple of wires in the plug from the fuse box that were pushed out and barely connected. Fixed those but no change. I printed out the wiring diagram and traced the wires back. Best I can tell I don't have the diode on mine.

Here's what I've found so far. In the picture I've got two devices with heat sinks mounted on the right side of the scooter. I'm assuming the larger of the two is the regulator, not sure what the smaller one is. Put the meter on it and it doesn't show continuity like a diode would but it does show 670K ohms of resistance. With the engine running I'm reading 12.2 volts on the red wire and 11.5 volts on the yellow wire to frame ground. The yellow wire shows roughly the same voltage as I get across the battery leads.

If I measure the voltage on the red lead coming out of the regulator I show roughly 13 volts +/- .2 volts which is what I think I should be showing. That wire goes into the harness and I believe it goes up toward the front of the scooter, ignition maybe?

So does this give anyone any ideas as to what to check next?

Thanks again for all the help.

[doakley]

The charging problem is solved. After thinking about it all day I decided that I didn't have the problem before I put all the new lights in so the best place to start would be to disconnect all the lights. I had charged the battery overnight so it was at 14 volts when I started tonight.

I disconnected all the lights in the fairing, hooked my meter to the battery leads, and started the bike. Sure enough the meter showed 12.98 volts and as I brought the rpm's up that climbed to 13.5 volts. Let it idle back down and it went to 12.98 volts. Then I started plugging lights back in. No change until I plugged in the HIDs. As soon as I did that the voltage started to drop until it got down to 11.2 volts. Disconnect the HIDs and the voltage climbed back up to 12.98 volts.

When putting the harness together I had used crimp on butt connectors because I was out of heatshrink and didn't want to use tape. I had brought some heatshrink home from work today so I cut the connectors off and redid it with solder and heatshrink. Put it all back together, started the bike and sure enough the voltage went right up to 12.98 with the lights on.

Spent the next hour or so putting the whole scooter back together and took it for a quick ride. When I got back checked the battery and it's holding at 13 volts.

Thanks for the help and suggestions. Now I'll go post pics of the pic in the correct area.

[yoster]

I hate to say it but you still have a charging problem. 12.98v idle/13.5v while at higher RPM's with no lights plugged in isn't sufficient. Especially when your fan kicks on. I had those numbers back when my lights were plugged in (as you do now), and even then, it's not sufficient. If you can't get it up to 14.5v while revving, and around 13-13.5v while at idle (with the fan off), then you'll eventually run into battery drain problems.

As previously recommended, I'd check out Damin's thread. There are many causes to the problem, but one of the core roots is the Regulator Rectifier. Replacing that alone will really step up your charging. I haven't done it yet, so I'm getting the same numbers you are (a bit more; replaced my diode with a relay). I can drive the scooter for 2-3 days to work but then must put it on the charger overnight.

Replacing the RR with the newer upgraded one found by Damin will solve the majority of this issue. The next two steps would be to replace the diode with e relay, and then possible (they're looking into this now) getting a better or upgraded stator. The first two options however will be enough for regular driving with all lights on.

[damin69]

I tend to Kinda agree with Yoster that you still have a charging problem. The HIDs should be pulling exacty the same current as the stock bulbs if the stock that came with it were 35 Watt. If the stock ones came as 25 Watt then the HIDs are pulling a bit more. The head Lights seem to be the biggest pull of power next to the cooling fan on these things. I would continue to monitor your Voltages and do a bit of a Test without your lights start up scooter and let it get warm enough for the Cooling fan to kick in then take your Voltage measurements. If you can stay above the Magic 13ish Volts you are still charging. Then plug in your lights and take the readings again warm with Fan Running. Again need to be above that 13 Volt limit to charge... Let us know what happens.

[damin69]

I really do not get much results on a short ride which is very frustrating so far. My normal ride is a 110 mile trip. If it is hot out I will see results in about 20 miles.. if it is cool out I do not see results until I have about 45 miles on. Heck most of the time my Morning ride in my voltage does not drop at all and still have a good 13 volt when I come back out in the afternoon.

Like Yoster said he can go 2-3 days but still has to charge. He gets good readings but Still has a charging issue.

[doakley]

After reading the reply's, did the 30 mile drive from work to home yesterday going into a pretty stiff headwind. Temp gauge was just below half way up all the way home. Fan was also on. When I got home I checked the voltage and it was sitting at 13 volts with the engine off.

It is the original battery so that may have something to do with it. I do 60 miles a day and haven't noticed any slow cranking or anything due to low battery voltage.

I'll check the voltage again this weekend.

[doakley]

Looks like you guys were right. Rode home Friday during a terrible thunderstorm, high winds and heavy rain. Noticed when I stopped to put the rain suit on that one headlight wasn't working and thought "uh oh, that's what happened when the voltage was low last time."

When I finally made it home I checked the voltage and it was down around 11.5 with the lights on and fan running. I put it back on the charger last night.

Guess I'm gonna have to order a new regulator like the one Damin bought since that seems to be a big part of the fix. Has anyone posted info as to how you wired the relay that replaced the diode? It would be helpful.

Thanks

[damin69]

What I did for the Relay is take the 2 wires from the diode and put across the Normally open Terminals of of the Relay. Then for the trigger I took a volt meter and kept checking wires by the fuse box until i found a wire that only came hot when the switch was turned on then tapped into that one to trigger the relay.

[scootaway]

This thread was very informative. I'm having a situation with my Jonway (244) where the radio would temporary go off as soon as I put the indicator on when on idle but all ok when i ref it up. With the indicator on the head lights also seem to go a little dull as the indc flashes. I have a new battery in. Any advice would be welcome. Also just please repeat those voltage readings at idle, 5000 rpm, light on/off and fan on/off.

[Cruiser]

Hi scootaway,

I might be the only one to be able to give you all those readings without pulling fuses. I have both my headlights (35W HID) switched independently. I have no headlight switch so I use the hi/lo beam switch for on and off. I can tell you that 13.9 volts is what I get at 5000 rpm with one headlight and the fan running. Two headlights will slowly discharge the battery. I get about 14.0 volts at idle with no fan or headlight. Goes to about 14.6 volts at 5000 rpm (no lights or fan).

PLEASE NOTE: I forgot to mention that I have an electric fuel pump which is always on.