Newbie By mxmatt (Read 1,761 times)

[mxmatt]

Feb 17, 2014 14:21:19 GMT -6 fugaziiv said:

Feb 17, 2014 11:50:17 GMT -6 kz1000st said:

i replaced the stock rollers (white) with 14 ounce sliders in a koso performance variation. Would this cause the decrease in accelerationI'm experiencing?
heavier
That's 14 gram sliders and yes, that's the cause. You probably had 13 gram rollers which fly out easier than a 14 gram slider. I think it was Alley who said that a slider acts like a one gram heavier roller, but I forget. (eg. a 14 gram slider is like a 15 gram roller)

Kinda yes. What happens is that a slider reacts quicker than a roller, so if you go up one gram on your slider, in theory, you'll retain the acceleration characteristics of the 1 gram lighter roller while gaining the higher top end of the heavier weight. (Providing your scooter has enough engine to push a heavier weight.)

Thanks for the 'splanation Matt. 

[randy]

Feb 17, 2014 12:44:00 GMT -6 kz1000st said:

I'll save you from one big headache. Don't buy a Yamaha scooter! You can't get parts for them! Chinese scooters are much easier to get parts for and better to ride than a Yamaha.
830 miles and threw a rod? You better be able to get parts for them. I have had several Yamaha scoots and they all rode and ran very good. As far getting parts for them I never needed anything but plugs.oil,filters and they were very easy to get . I had one Riva with over 20,000 miles and NO internal problems what so ever.

[kz1000st]

Who threw a rod at 830 miles? Nobody I know. If they did they must have forgotten to fill the oil sump. These aren't two strokes.

I had a Kawasaki with 125,000 miles and no internal problems whatsoever. Your point?

[mxmatt]

Feb 18, 2014 7:59:13 GMT -6 kz1000st said:

Who threw a rod at 830 miles? Nobody I know. If they did they must have forgotten to fill the oil sump. These aren't two strokes.

I had a Kawasaki with 125,000 miles and no internal problems whatsoever. Your point?

I threw my rod bearing at 830 miles. I was running Amsoil 10w40 motorcycle oil. Im a nazi about oil and maintenance. I believe I ran it too long at WOT. Won't do that again. (2008 Lifan 150t-6)

[randy]

Feb 18, 2014 7:59:13 GMT -6 kz1000st said:

Who threw a rod at 830 miles? Nobody I know. If they did they must have forgotten to fill the oil sump. These aren't two strokes.

I had a Kawasaki with 125,000 miles and no internal problems whatsoever. Your point?

I thought he said in the begining of the thread at 830 miles he took a rod out. That is my point! You wanna keep beating the China parts are easy to get drum you must have overlooked it. Good thing they are easy to get and cheap your gonna need them! might be a good idea to put the UPS driver on your Christmas cookie list.

[Bashan]

Sprocket did quite a bit of research on the GY6. He was going to write a book on them but I don't think that ever came to fruition. One thing he contended is they are not clones of a Honda engine. I don't know on this. Second, he said they were designed to run for extended stretches at 80% throttle. I'd say this was accurate based on what I've read and looked at on the oil delivery system. Also, these things run hot! 240 is not unusual. It sounds like you've had them apart more than once. Did you ever look at the oil pump and say "what?" It not only is supposed to provide lubrication but help control the temperature. The oil cascading inside the head and cylinder is supposed to diffuse heat. I don't think it takes a lot to exceed both of those demands. Don't get me wrong, I've been guilty of "gee, this sounds really strong at WOT, I LIKE it!" They are not designed for that. The QMK got an oil cooler because of the heat control demands from a larger displacement engine. Another thing is how much extra performance can we expect to wring out of these engines before they fail? Were they designed to handle tacking on enhancement part after part? IMO...no.

[kz1000st]

OK I did go back and look. I'm not convinced that the Amsoil isn't the culprit here. At 830 miles synthetic oil shouldn't be anywhere near that engine. The rings don't seat, blowby enters the sump and bearings overheat. As for beating the drum, of course. China scoots get back on the road instead of a month's wait for the boat to arrive from overseas and parts to be unloaded.

[fugaziiv]

Feb 17, 2014 18:01:30 GMT -6 LUKE said:

wow, welcome back fugazil,, i knew i recognize that username, your last post was around May 2012..
since you were gone for a long time id like you to know that the Scootdawg forum has been closed due to some unavoidable circumstances, the owner Lee broke up with his girlfriend and since then he was nowhere to be found.
i heard at one point he accepted money for the Manual for scooters maintenance or whatever but he never send the merchandize to the buyer.
what a sad story, i can go on and on with the story but this is not the right venue.
glad you're back!

Luke, thanks, but I really didn't go anywhere. I just dialed down my forum involvement in favor of other methods of communication as KZ stated. That and y'know, running a business is sometimes... well, busy. Also, forums can be a messy place for someone who is an enthusiast but also represents a company such as myself, so being too involved never seemed like a great idea. The last thing I want to come off as is a company shill, but at the same time, since I am, looking out for the best interest of PartsForScooters is important as well. It's a fine line that I'm still learning.

I'm pretty well aware of the sordid details of old Scootdawg/new Scootdawg/It Is The Ride, since there were some questions that I had about our name being used to support certain actions without my permission.

Anyways, thanks for the welcome back!


Matt

[Alleyoop]

Most 150cc scoots run good with 11-12 gram rollers. I have tried every possible gram weights on mine and I find that running 13g weights drops my rpms to much and makes it little sluggish on acceleration, so I run 12s or 12.5 Dr. Pulley Sliders which gives good rpms little over 7K at Wide Open Throttle.
Alleyoop

[randy]

Feb 18, 2014 11:11:14 GMT -6 kz1000st said:

OK I did go back and look. I'm not convinced that the Amsoil isn't the culprit here. At 830 miles synthetic oil shouldn't be anywhere near that engine. The rings don't seat, blowby enters the sump and bearings overheat. As for beating the drum, of course. China scoots get back on the road instead of a month's wait for the boat to arrive from overseas and parts to be unloaded.

If those rings weren't seated at 830 miles they weren't gonna seat. That is 1960's logic when the rings were made of cast iron. With the present technolgy and materials used they send cars brand new out of the factory with Mobil 1 in the crankcase. I put Mobil 1 in my RC Moto at 250 miles and the bike ran great when I sold it at ~7500 miles.

[kz1000st]

If those rings weren't seated at 830 miles they weren't gonna seat. That is 1960's logic when the rings were made of cast iron. With the present technology and materials used they send cars brand new out of the factory with Mobil 1 in the crankcase. I put Mobil 1 in my RC Moto at 250 miles and the bike ran great when I sold it at ~7500 miles.

Cars don't spin at 8500 RPM or more regularly. Also, if I read it right, car engines are broken in on a dyno to idiot proof them for stupid customers who can't do it themselves. These scooters are high performance engines that develop 1 horse per cubic inch. Apples and oranges. Also a Honda is not a Chinese scooter. Chinese scooters, in my opinion, take longer to break in.
I could feel a difference in my GY6 at 1,000 miles, 2,000 miles, 5,000 miles and even now at 7,000 miles. I don't ascribe to Moto Man's idiot method of break in. But what do I know, I only had a bike with 125,000 miles that ran like new with long, gentle break in.
Plus as anyone can tell you. One ball in the cage could have been damaged much earlier and finally gave out hundreds of miles later. I had a Honda transmission bearing hang on for 1,000 miles making a slight noise before it finally gave out. These aren't plain bearings that fail in an instant.

[cyborg]

HAMMER FIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!

[cyborg]

was it the little end or big end?,,anyways it doesn't matter,,whatever the reason for the bearing letting go,,wide open for extended periods on these machines,,no matter where they come from is not good,,,even my vespa factory manual says no more than half throttle for the first 200 miles,,then 3/4 till 500 miles,,and after "full break in " extended full throttle operation is not recommended and will affect the engines longevity and may cause engine failure,,,,,, i use synthetic well after break in,,,1500-2000 miles on my road bikes,,,and i take a reading on the barrel as it's running after a short blast,,then switch to synth,,on my aircooleds i generally see 60-75 degree drop,,,trans shifts better the whole deal,,, as far as the gy6 engines being clones if parts can't be interchanged (all of them or mid 90 percent) it's a different design,,,harley had lawsuits flying around like flocks of birds over the aftermarket's used of their "pattern designs",,,i think that if you "push" these little engines too hard too long ,,they break,,plain and simple,,,they're meant to move people at moderate paces,, and at a great gas savings,,,,,,and being the design is meant for low stress power output and not for full throttle for any extended period of time,,,when i build my little hotrod gy6 most of the build money will go to balancing,and having all internals stress relieved ,shot peened and the head either cleaned up or replaced with a four valver,,i'm very familiar with making stuff go as a contributer to a class record breaking boneville team some years back,,even that engine with all the work couldn't run flat out for long or it would "throw something" ,,nothing like having a fuel engine go BANG between your legs,,,,eggs over easy in an instant with a side of i just sh!t my pants,,,,all at over 150mph


Read more: scooterdoc.proboards.com/thread/9381/newbie?page=2&scrollTo=76860#ixzz2tibNwKbp

[mxmatt]

Feb 18, 2014 10:28:13 GMT -6 Bashan said:

Sprocket did quite a bit of research on the GY6. He was going to write a book on them but I don't think that ever came to fruition. One thing he contended is they are not clones of a Honda engine. I don't know on this. Second, he said they were designed to run for extended stretches at 80% throttle. I'd say this was accurate based on what I've read and looked at on the oil delivery system. Also, these things run hot! 240 is not unusual. It sounds like you've had them apart more than once. Did you ever look at the oil pump and say "what?" It not only is supposed to provide lubrication but help control the temperature. The oil cascading inside the head and cylinder is supposed to diffuse heat. I don't think it takes a lot to exceed both of those demands. Don't get me wrong, I've been guilty of "gee, this sounds really strong at WOT, I LIKE it!" They are not designed for that. The QMK got an oil cooler because of the heat control demands from a larger displacement engine. Another thing is how much extra performance can we expect to wring out of these engines before they fail? Were they designed to handle tacking on enhancement part after part? IMO...no.

Is there a less expensive way to cool the oil. The oil coolers I've seen run $100-200. That's a fourth of a new bike. 

[mxmatt]

Feb 18, 2014 14:09:27 GMT -6 Alleyoop said:

Most 150cc scoots run good with 11-12 gram rollers. I have tried every possible gram weights on mine and I find that running 13g weights drops my rpms to much and makes it little sluggish on acceleration, so I run 12s or 12.5 Dr. Pulley Sliders which gives good rpms little over 7K at Wide Open Throttle.
Alleyoop

Thanks for the info Alleyoop. I swapped out my sliders with my stock rollers today. Made a big difference.