Doc's Anything Goes
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Post by dmartin95 on May 13, 2015 13:55:05 GMT -6
What threw me was the pipe that looks like a 2stroke expansion chamber,,,all in all not a bad build ,,,a little more tuning and it's going to be great!!!! Good catch! The seller's ad was misleading... After doing a little research, I too think this is a 2 stroke exhaust... I have a few, stock 4 stroke exhaust laying around... I'll get one put on before I start it again.... Thanks brother!  |
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Post by Alleyoop on May 13, 2015 14:31:33 GMT -6
Can you expand on what you mean by "looking for the highest idle"? I totally follow ya on adjusting A/F screw to richen it up.... But I'm having a hard time separating RPM's with Idle in the context of your post... When you increase the idle, RPM goes up.... With the current setup I have now if adjust higher my RPM's increase and i'm already at 1800 rpm when at idle... Stock RPM idle was 1700 So can you expand on what you're saying because I'm pretty sure I'm not understanding exactly what you're saying... HIGHEST IDLE is equal to HIGHEST RPMS(AT IDLE) adjusting the Fuel Ratio Mixture Screw. THEN once you get the highest rpms(idle) from the FUEL RATIO MIXTURE you can then LOWER THE IDLE TO wherever you want "BUT USING THE IDLE SPEED SCREW" on the carb WHICH is different than the Fuel Ratio Screw. On all your carbs you have BASICALLY TWO adjustments FUEL RATIO or AIR RATIO(depending on the carb type) AND a IDLE SPEED SCREW. On a CV or CVK carb you have a Butterfly by the intake side, the idle speed screw is on the Throttle control wheel and has a spring under it , turning it clockwise opens the butterfly(higher idle(rpms)) counter clockwise closes the butterfly(lower idle(rpms). On a Slider type carb(throttle cable going into the top of the carb) the idle speed screw is in the center of the Carb as you look at it. Turning it clockwise raises the Slide(higher idle(rpms) counter clockwise lowers the Slide(lower idle(rpms). Alleyoop |
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Doc's Anything Goes
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Post by dmartin95 on May 13, 2015 15:14:32 GMT -6
Can you expand on what you mean by "looking for the highest idle"? I totally follow ya on adjusting A/F screw to richen it up.... But I'm having a hard time separating RPM's with Idle in the context of your post... When you increase the idle, RPM goes up.... With the current setup I have now if adjust higher my RPM's increase and i'm already at 1800 rpm when at idle... Stock RPM idle was 1700 So can you expand on what you're saying because I'm pretty sure I'm not understanding exactly what you're saying... HIGHEST IDLE is equal to HIGHEST RPMS(AT IDLE) adjusting the Fuel Ratio Mixture Screw. THEN once you get the highest rpms(idle) from the FUEL RATIO MIXTURE you can then LOWER THE IDLE TO wherever you want "BUT USING THE IDLE SPEED SCREW" on the carb WHICH is different than the Fuel Ratio Screw. On all your carbs you have BASICALLY TWO adjustments FUEL RATIO or AIR RATIO(depending on the carb type) AND a IDLE SPEED SCREW. On a CV or CVK carb you have a Butterfly by the intake side, the idle speed screw is on the Throttle control wheel and has a spring under it , turning it clockwise opens the butterfly(higher idle(rpms)) counter clockwise closes the butterfly(lower idle(rpms). On a Slider type carb(throttle cable going into the top of the carb) the idle speed screw is in the center of the Carb as you look at it. Turning it clockwise raises the Slide(higher idle(rpms) counter clockwise lowers the Slide(lower idle(rpms). Alleyoop Alright, so I went out in the shop and switched the exhaust over to the original... I do not have a performance muffler on hand for this scooter so I had to use it.... Anyhow, as you might expect, this changed all the variables... Now that you've identified that "hollow bog" sound, I can distinguish it better... In prior post called it a "throaty sound",... I thought it was just the acoustics of my duct....But there is a hesitation there also... Now that I've switched the exhaust, the "hollow bog" sound is more prevalent and in addition, I can smell that it's running lean.... I played with the A/F screw (I know the dif between A/F and idle screw) and I was able to keep turning it out without the engine stalling... I for sure am going to have to go up to next jet don't ya think? I can't get a video right now because I'm already uploading the actual build of this engine to youtube.... Stick with me though on this ... Fine tuning a carburetor is my weakest area of expertise when talking about these GY6's. |
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Post by Guitarman on May 13, 2015 15:49:12 GMT -6
You're doing a great job so far. By the time Alley gets done pounding on your brain, you will know what you're doing on carbs as well.
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Post by cyborg on May 13, 2015 19:12:01 GMT -6
That exhaust was bouncing high pressure waves all over the place,,, I'm surprised it ran as good as it did,,,when you get a decent pipe on that thing it's going to be very powerful,,,and very smooth throughout the rev range when it's tuned and fully sorted out
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Post by dmartin95 on May 14, 2015 22:25:31 GMT -6
You're doing a great job so far. By the time Alley gets done pounding on your brain, you will know what you're doing on carbs as well. Thank g-man! The compliments are appreciated.. I worked hard on this motor...I nice to hear the words "good job". Ran into a few problems, but all in all, she doesn't smoke and compression is great! Getting the fuel worked out is just about wrapped up... Or at least I'm getting closer.... |
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Doc's Anything Goes
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Post by dmartin95 on May 14, 2015 22:28:49 GMT -6
That exhaust was bouncing high pressure waves all over the place,,, I'm surprised it ran as good as it did,,,when you get a decent pipe on that thing it's going to be very powerful,,,and very smooth throughout the rev range when it's tuned and fully sorted out I put the stock pipe back on and it made a world of difference.... This puppy will peel out without me having to hold the breaks... It can get squirly on take off on you if you're not careful..... I know right now I'm going to have to change the gears.... While I did put a BBK on here, I only went up 5cc's... This 4 valve is what is going to make all the difference... This thing is gonna be nuts I'm thinking.... |
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Post by dmartin95 on May 14, 2015 22:38:00 GMT -6
REMEMBER YOU ARE LOOKING FOR THE HIGHEST IDLE OUT OF THAT SCREW. Alleyoop I think I discovered the problem..... It's not in my Jet or adjustment screws... It was a combo of things... I didn't have any clamps on my going from my accelerator pump t the intake causing a big leak in vacuum.... In addition, I've removed the original vacuum petcock and fuel filter and replaced with a manual petcock and a filter for riding lawn mower... In addition, my fuel run for about 6", was at about 1° + on the bubble.. I thought it was level... In short, even it's not the fix, I have blue poly lines and can see I'm having fuel delivery issues.. Tomorrow I'm gonna do a whole new fuel line setup. |
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Post by cyborg on May 15, 2015 7:52:50 GMT -6
I put the stock pipe back on and it made a world of difference.... This puppy will peel out without me having to hold the breaks... It can get squirly on take off on you if you're not careful.....
I know right now I'm going to have to change the gears.... While I did put a BBK on here, I only went up 5cc's... This 4 valve is what is going to make all the difference... This thing is gonna be nuts I'm thinking....
This is the point i've been trying to make about these modern thought engines,,especially the ones made in taiwan,,,,you're getting good power and the engine isn't even broke in yet and the carb isn't sorted and the pipe is not optimal,,,this is exactly why the smaxes you have fly for 155cc,,,2 valvers are not even close to a 4 valver no matter where it comes from,,,they are just plain oldie more efficient,, better burn,,,less emissions, better mpg,,,just wait till you get this thing sorted out,,,it's going to fly too,,,good job my man
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Post by dmartin95 on May 15, 2015 21:33:26 GMT -6
This is the point i've been trying to make about these modern thought engines,,especially the ones made in taiwan,,,,you're getting good power and the engine isn't even broke in yet and the carb isn't sorted and the pipe is not optimal,,,this is exactly why the smaxes you have fly for 155cc,,,2 valvers are not even close to a 4 valver no matter where it comes from,,,they are just plain oldie more efficient,, better burn,,,less emissions, better mpg,,,just wait till you get this thing sorted out,,,it's going to fly too,,,good job my man If I ever meet you in person I don't owe you a beer.... I owe you a keg! Ive been doing a little more reading on the differences between 2 and 4 stroke exhaust and think you saved me from melting my new 4 valve head!  |
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Post by cyborg on May 15, 2015 22:30:43 GMT -6
Don't think you would have melted the head but you sure would have hurt the exhaust valves,,,,,but it would have taken a while,,,,not just the poppin around like youve been doin,,,and it was cool too so that is in your favor,,,no harm no foul in my estimate,,,and can you imagine what it would do with fuel injection?? Holy Smokes,,,it would really fly,,,especially if you can get a nice fat aftermarket map,,,,probably get 15-17hp maybe 20 at the wheel without even breathing hard,,,(EDIT i ran some numbers and this thing could break 25hp,,and not fly apart,,,fabulous!!!!)
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Post by dmartin95 on May 15, 2015 23:57:37 GMT -6
I have a fuel injection kit for it....
It's in the last minute or so in the video... Not installed yet, obviously..... Reason I'm dfoing it like this is I don't like do too many changes at once....All the little upgrades you see like orange CDI and coil, all were tested individually...
The EFI conversion kits can almost be plug 'n play if you're installing on a stock 157QMJ... But when it's going ona scooter that's been modded, the MAPPING files for the ECU are off... Now, Ecotrons does allow tuning, but I'm still learning all their "code"... Most people have to drive it, send a file to support, drive it, send a file to support, drive it, send a file to support ad'infinity..... I'm learning to do the Maps myself... Anyhow point of that rant is to summarize that I want the engine running perfect before I install the EFI.... Eliminates a lot of troubleshooting variables.
I built this engine to see if I could get a GY6 to perform like my SMAX engine... I'm trying to match spec for spec...
SMAX______________________ Project scoot
155cc_____________________ 155cc
4 Valve ________________________4 valve
EFI _____________________ Carb, once tuned will go to EFI.
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Post by cyborg on May 16, 2015 8:21:22 GMT -6
So this injection system has a lambda and is going into the exhaust ,,,did it come with the pipe or do you have to mod an existing header tube?,,,And as i see it the 5cc bump in displacement will be covered by the injection,,because its variable and takes into consideration temp/altitude/crank position so i don't see any problems here,,,the only thing i can see as being a problem at all is if the company is trying to be emissions "compliant" and it will be lean if they went that way,,,and also i see it performing as good if not better if the balance of the rotating masses is correct and you can get the right map for the thing,,,with the right exhaust and intake and map it will probably make more power over a wider rev range,,,this is with you matching intake manifold to head,,exhaust pipe is clean and matched to the head as well with a decent free flow silencer,,,and filtering system so there is little or no restriction,,,
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Post by cyborg on May 16, 2015 9:57:40 GMT -6
And as a side,,,( this is my opinion only) you got it "running" and it's making power i personally would abandon the carb and not fiddle with it any longer,,,it's a waste of time to get it "perfect" only to tear it apart and go with another intake system ,,,and have to do it all over again,,,i see it being good that you started with it to make sure the build was mechanically sound,,but why go thru all the jet changes and all the adjustments just to change it after you get it right?,,,cruise the internet i'm sure someone else has done this build already or one that's very close and you probably can even find a map that someone else has developed for this engine,,,,hundreds if not thousands of thoses heads have been made,,,so someone out there has this thing sorted out already,,,the people that make the efi system probably have a map ready to go ,,,they keep extensive data bases for this kind of thing,,,i never developed any maps of any kind for my ducatis i built,,,it was done already by racers that have access to dynomometers and flow benches with testing equipment that i can only dream about,,,i used their knowledge and expertise to help me ,,,anyways it cut down on the build/tune time and i had a better end product,,,,(don't get me wrong this is not a shot at you just my opinion,,,i think you're doing a stellar job and i must admit i am a tad jealous ,,,i havn't done a build in a year or two,,,and i have the itch)
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Post by cyborg on May 16, 2015 11:23:48 GMT -6
And as another side note thats related to injection,,,when i did a very mild weight loss/fuel injection tune on the bike in my avatar,,i went with a full Ti ztechnik exhaust with cat delete pipe and a reprogram of the injection,,,couple of my buds had similar bikes and went with a different exhaust than i ran but were looking for peak hp numbers,,,well over 100hp but the torque numbers were weak,,,i went 90/90 hp/tq,,,it was a better bike for all situations and they couldn't catch me in the canyons,,,i walked away from them every time,,man would they get pissed,,,and it all was done with the program,,,(something to think about),,,personally myself i like a torqey mill,,,more drivable for everyday street situations
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..BAD TO THE BONE..
