Brake power getting weak By rosiemoto (Read 1,412 times)

[rosiemoto]

I've been noticing my scooter's braking is getting weak. They've never been cleaned, so I want to get some brake cleaner and work on it. Maybe even get some replacement pads for the front disc brakes if needed, because they haven't been replaced in the 5-6 years I've had my bike. 

Symptoms:
- Front tire area makes an annoying squeel when moving forward at low speed (loudest when pushing bike), and similar in reverse.
- Rear tire area makes a loud squeel when moving bike in reverse, and squeels in forward too.
*** Basically when I push my bike anywhere, it's nothing but squeaks.
- Front brake lever seems to lose pressure when I hold it for a little bit like at a stop light, so I have to let go and push in again. Hasn't been an issue during braking.
- Rear brakes are VERY weak (pads were replaced early this year..mechanic thought drum needs work too). They work better when they're wet I notice.

I watched a great video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNz00OTRLzM) and thought I was on my way, but I'm making this thread because I keep coming across scares like "don't spray the calipers," "be careful of the rubber seals," and "don't let the pistons push out too far." I don't know half of what they're talking about, so could you experts clue me in?

So from what I understand from the video, you take it all off, clean the big metal piece (called...?) with the pistons with soapy water and toothbrush, then squeeze the pistons back and forth a little, clean again, then spray with brake cleaner to finish. Then lightly scrub any brake dust off the pads, or just replace if they're too worn. Spray pads with brake cleaner to finish, then reassemble everything and once all together pump the brake lever until it's firm again. Did I get all that right?

One more thing that could be very relevant; I've done the "dime trick" where you glue a dime on the window of the brake fluid container, because mine was cracking and seaping out brake fluid when I hit the brakes. 

Thank you!

[crwford]

Soapy water ? I wouldn't if you don't plan to take a part take a little W-40 spray on rag wipe it down clean cloth put new pads make sure slide are clean, bleed brake system clean fresh brake fluid. Most times noise will be hard lining or oil on pads. Make sure rotor is clean brake cleaner will do good there.

[jct842]

Could be the rotor and pads are just glazed over. Cleaning and a scuff up with Emory cloth cures that. If both surfaces are shiny and smooth you are not going to get much friction when you squeeze the levers.

edit: no oil what so ever on brakes and that means wd-40 too. Oil your brakes and you will not stop.

[richardv]

Brake cleaner is best used only on the rotor, pads and pad mounting surface. Any were else could cause damage to the finish.

[crwford]

Didn't say w-40 on pads or rotor I said on rag on caliber it will take off junk I guess I should have broken it down closer didn't think everyone I was saying on everything. Brake cleaner was for rotor and wouldn't waste my time cleaning pads rather replace them.

[Alleyoop]

Some pads have a piece of metal built into them so that when the pad material is worn down and the metal piece is exposed it makes squeeling sounds. I would think 5-6 years and maybe around 10k+ miles new brakes pads are called for. Also if the master cylinder reservoir was leaking DID you fill it back up or just plug the damn.
They do have Glass Eye rebuild kits for those they run around 15.00 bucks. One thing you do not want to skimp on is your brakes and tires.
Alleyoop

[rosiemoto]

I think I'm even more confused now. Should I just follow exactly what he did in the video? ()

Alleyoop - I didn't refill it. It's never been touched other than my dime thing. I'm totally scared of that area. I'll put up some pictures soon of how ugly it is from the superglue. I'm hoping maybe I could just replace the reservoir only and fill it up with new brake fluid, but all this sounds really scary and hard to do because of the brake fluid being "dangerous." Do you have any videos you'd recommend of replacing the whole thing?

[trashtruck12172]

inspect your brake pads first, before adding fluid. the reason for this is if you fill the reservoir and then replace the pads, you will have too much fluid in the brake system. brake pads "use" fluid as they wear down.

[olivertwisted]

rosiemoto, it's normal to fear what we are unfamiliar with yet, brake fluid isn't particularly dangerous. You may have heard or read many warnings about being VERY careful not to spill it, but the reason for that is because it eats paint. There is no particular danger to you. Just treat it as you would any other chemical, in regards to not leaving it on the skin for long periods. Although, countless times, while working on my vehicle , I have had plenty of it on me up to my elbows for longer than I cared to, without any ill effects. So, take courage. You can do this without fear, just don't get it on your paint Also, I would have to 2nd Alleyoops assessment that you are probably hearing your "Wear indicators" that exist for specifically that reason, to squeal and get your attention when your pads have worn out. Do as the video that you posted shows to remove the "calipers". You asked...  " (So from what I understand from the video, you take it all off, clean the big metal piece (called...?)", that metal encasement is called the "Caliper". It encases the pistons that are pushed by the brake fluid pressure behind them (When you plunge the fluid with the brake lever) they then push against the brake pads to press them against your rotors (like a rotor sandwich !), causing enough friction to stop your scoot.) and when you have the pads removed ,assess if they have any wear left to them (Post a pic in the forum if you are unsure). Also, always check that your brakes are operating correctly afterward before "Hittin' the road" again. The worst that could happen in general is that if your fluid level gets too low, you could suck air into the system and need to "Bleed" the brake line to remove it. A small hassle, that is not overly complicated.
  Spraying the calipers down with cleaner is not that risky. It's just that such cleaners can be drying to rubber seals around the pistons. When you clean around the pistons just be sure not to ever use anything sharp or hard, a toothbrush is fine.

Bleeding brakes/changing fluid

You wont want or need to go this far but, good references here... Brakes, major servicing

[rosiemoto]

Nov 10, 2015 2:41:46 GMT -6 trashtruck12172 said:

inspect your brake pads first, before adding fluid. the reason for this is if you fill the reservoir and then replace the pads, you will have too much fluid in the brake system. brake pads "use" fluid as they wear down.

Thank you, I definitely didn't know that. I'll check the pads first! How do I know how much is too much fluid; is there markers in there?

Nov 10, 2015 4:06:24 GMT -6 olivertwisted said:

rosiemoto, it's normal to fear what we are unfamiliar with yet, brake fluid isn't particularly dangerous. You may have heard or read many warnings about being VERY careful not to spill it, but the reason for that is because it eats paint. There is no particular danger to you. Just treat it as you would any other chemical, in regards to not leaving it on the skin for long periods. Although, countless times, while working on my vehicle , I have had plenty of it on me up to my elbows for longer than I cared to, without any ill effects. So, take courage. You can do this without fear, just don't get it on your paint     ...

  Spraying the calipers down with cleaner is not that risky. It's just that such cleaners can be drying to rubber seals around the pistons. When you clean around the pistons just be sure not to ever use anything sharp or hard, a toothbrush is fine.

Thank you for the boost of confidence and detailed info, that helps a lot. I was starting to feel overwhelmed with all the warnings I kept seeing. About the rubber seals, am I understanding it right that I should do the soapy water + toothbrush clean inside the caliper first, then give it a final spray with brake cleaner afterwards and it won't hurt the rubber? 

[Alleyoop]

If you need to Bleed the brakes here is a good way to fill and bleed at the same time:
Alleyoop

[olivertwisted]

rosiemoto, You're welcome . I'm still learning TONS in here too  You got it yes, do the soapy water wash (Thorough but, not rough, around the edges of the pistons, where the rubber seals live) then, hit em it with brake parts cleaner Also, as in the video that Alleyoop posted above, DO take your time getting the screws off of the master cylinder. I bought what Alleyoop calls a "Rust Animal". lol! The screws hadn't been out of it in, well forever! What I needed to do was hold my screwdriver in the screw heads and smack the hammer down into them (smack em once then, see if they will turn, repeat)until it loosened up any crud that surrounded and froze them into place. You could also trace the heads with a razor blade to loosen it. I think, on one screw, I had to actually use the hammer directly and flat on top of the screw (No screwdriver) but, just increase pressure until it works, and don't hit it with the edge of the hammer, flat. You don't want to hit so hard that you crack the lid, either. It's very possible that you won't have any trouble at all, getting yours off.
   As far as fluid level goes, I didn't notice any markers in mine but, mine are pretty old looking right now. It seems that about 1/4 inch from the top was about where I topped mine. If you're very nervous about spilling, wrap a small towel around the handlebar or even hang a small cup or something, (Surround and cradle the master cylinder with it but leave access open to the top) to catch any drips or , in case of overflow. You always want to be sure that your reservoir (Master cylinder) does not run dry either because then air will be in the line and bleeding the line again will be unavoidable. You really should bleed them every time you service your brakes, and any time you feel a loss of hydraulic pressure in the brakes.
You can do this

[rosiemoto]

I ended up getting a turkey baster, a foot long 1/4" tube (hoping that's the right size!), and DOT4 brake fluid. I forgot the brake cleaner lol... But, where is my bleeder? Is this it? In person it looks like it's going to break soon as I remove it, it's so cracked.



Here's some pictures of my wheel and messy reservoir. Click to see them bigger. I just noticed my rotor is rusting! Look at all that oil and stuff on it too.






By the way, can I spray brake cleaner on my rims and the orange part of my wheel? It has a ton of oil on those areas.

[Alleyoop]

Nov 10, 2015 19:16:44 GMT -6 rosiemoto said:

I ended up getting a turkey baster, a foot long 1/4" tube (hoping that's the right size!), and DOT4 brake fluid. I forgot the brake cleaner lol... But, where is my bleeder? Is this it? In person it looks like it's going to break soon as I remove it, it's so cracked.



Here's some pictures of my wheel and messy reservoir. Click to see them bigger. I just noticed my rotor is rusting! Look at all that oil and stuff on it too.






By the way, can I spray brake cleaner on my rims and the orange part of my wheel? It has a ton of oil on those areas.

Pic #1 YES that is the Bleeder.

Pic #3 Reservoir YOU MUST LIVE IN FLORIDA

Yes you can use Carb Cleaner to clean yp your rims.

[olivertwisted]

rosiemoto , 1/4 inch is fine, as long as you can fit it tightly on the end of the bleeder nipple. You don't want it to slip off while the bleeder is open because it could suck air in instead of fluid, and you'll have to bleed that air out. Try a small zip tie if you have one, to keep it tight on there. When you pull that rubber cap off of the top of that fitting, you should see a nipple with a hole in the center, and that's the one!
It is preferable that you use the soap and a rag / lightly toothbrush, on your painted areas. The cleaner won't do any great immediate damage but can discolor and degrade the finish. Just never use anything harsher than it takes to do the job. You DO want to use the cleaner on your rotors to remove brake dust and road grime. Oil transfers from the road and reduces friction that you need for stopping.
Yup! My reservoirs look like that too, the weather gets to them!