Won't start, has spark, new parts/ & cleaned, shoot me arg By stewbuntu (Read 829 times)

[stewbuntu]

Hello Everyone,

I'll try to be thorough encase you have questions.

UPDATE - Thoughts from today
So I got a new coil and I can see spark, I cleaned the carb, new fuel filter, pumped the gas out w a universal car fuel pump and added 93 octane gas, new plug, dieletcric grease on coil and plug end, air filter was cleaned. It cranks good. Key is on, fuse looks good. All the connectors are in rubber boots and look brand new. I'm still stumped.



It has a gas pump, with a gas tank under the feet. Is there a way to test it to see if it is pumping, like pull the top hose off while cranking? The plugs are though. Spark look pretty good multiple shocks around the electrode not just one across the gap. Should it me one strong one? Pulling at straws



The oil is supplied from a resevior, not sure how it enters, but maybe it's just oil getting on the plug and not gas, but my oil is blue and the plug is wet with yellow color....



ORIGINAL POST
I'm new here. I have some experiene with scooter repair, more with boat and car motors though. I had a GY6 clone I picked it up for $600 and I loved it; you could get parts off of Amazon. My wife has a difficult 2006 daelim Delfino 100cc 2-stroke (SH100 I think) with 1500 miles on it that she bought brand new in 2006. It was started pretty regularly, had stabil in it, but now it won't start.

First I tried spraying premixed fuel in the carb intake with a syringe, but nothing happened.
I don't see spark from the spark plug when cranking, so the ignition/key and start button work
If the start button works does that mean the solenoid relay works?
The light bulb filament turns red when cranking it over. so the stator is making electricity
The blinkers and brakes work, horn works, starter works well, so it's not a fuse
New battery, new spark plug, with dielectric grease

I was thinking the coil, solenoid relay, or distribution module, could be the problem, but I don't know ignition systems that well. Is there a common part that fails in the ignition system that I should try first or is there a way to start testing parts to narrow it down? I seem to remember needing expensive tools to test the stator on a old boat outboard I had years ago. I was lucky then, it was the safety switch that went bad. So what do I test or swap out first. It's 10-30 days for parts to come from Korea so I have to plan what to do and buy.

Since I have a your ear - It has a fuel issue. It uses a fuel pump, I don't think it's an electronic pump. Only hoses going into it, so I assume it's running off engeine pressures (can't remember the name) like a boat outboard. I have always had a problem with the fuel. It would take a long time to start after sitting for a day or so. It's like the carborator float bowl is leaking, but I have never seen or smelt a leak. Maybe like the fuel is syphoning back into the gas tank and I have to prime the float chamber each time. It would start ok after about 10 seconds of cranking. We could deal with that, but if you know of a common problem I should fix while I'm at it, please let me know.


Lastly does anyone know of a Honda or popular scooter with the same parts to avoid buying parts from Korea and waiting 30 days? I can't find any information on the engine, if it's a clone etc.

Thanks in advance everyone!

[cyborg]

I'd check all connectors and terminations of the ignition system before I tore into it,,,,and start with the easy stuff first,,,,if the plug and connection tests don't work start with the coil,,,,oh I forgot,,,check all ground straps and frame terminations also

[stewbuntu]

Mar 27, 2017 6:55:58 GMT -6 cyborg said:

I'd check all connectors and terminations of the ignition system before I tore into it,,,,and start with the easy stuff first,,,,if the plug and connection tests don't work start with the coil,,,,oh I forgot,,,check all ground straps and frame terminations also

I was working the past few days. Just saw your post after trying a coil from Amazon. I could not get spark or a spark tester to light up. I'll check the connections, good thinking. I'm not seeing corrosion anywhere so far. If the starter kicks over doesn't than mean the solenoid relay is working? I was thinking next I'll test for voltage coming into the coil. Battery terminals wires look brand new on the new battery and it turns over strong. The fuse terminals look good. I'll do some more investigating. What about a 12v 25amp relay that I saw under a rubber boot cover? What does that feed? It was right next to the coil, had two thicker gauge wires that I haven't followed yet.

Oh, and it is an air puffer hose to the fuel pump from a nipple coming off the crankcase to control the fuel pump just like a boat.

Posted by phone

[stewbuntu]

Mar 27, 2017 6:55:58 GMT -6 cyborg said:

I'd check all connectors and terminations of the ignition system before I tore into it,,,,and start with the easy stuff first,,,,if the plug and connection tests don't work start with the coil,,,,oh I forgot,,,check all ground straps and frame terminations also

It wants to start for the first crank over or two, and then just cranks over w nothing, if I wait a minute same thing.

So I got a new coil and I can see spark, I cleaned the carb, new fuel filter, pumped the gas out w a universal car fuel pump and added 93 octane gas, new plug, dieletcric grease on coil and plug end, air filter was cleaned. It cranks good. Key is on, fuse looks good. All the connectors are in rubber boots and look brand new. I'm still stumped. 

It has a gas pump, with a gas tank under the feet. Is there a way to test it to see if it is pumping, like pull the top hose off while cranking? The plugs are though. Spark look pretty good multiple shocks around the electrode not just one across the gap. Should it me one strong one? Pulling at straws

The oil is supplied from a resevior, not sure how it enters, but maybe it's just oil getting on the plug and not gas, but my oil is blue and the plug is wet with yellow color.... 

[cyborg]

Should be just a spark jump across the gap,,, no sparks off to the side

[stewbuntu]

Nov 29, 2017 19:12:29 GMT -6 cyborg said:

Should be just a spark jump across the gap,,, no sparks off to the side

It's multiple "strikes of lightening" around the edge of the center disk/electrode striking up across the gap to the arm vs one strike across that same usual area.

[cyborg]

There should be none of that there should only be a jump across the gap,,,the plug may be misfiring when there's compression,,,get a new one in there,,,I've had plugs be bad right out of the box new,,,,and do yourself a favor and run. NGK

[lostforawhile]

Mar 30, 2017 5:49:26 GMT -6 stewbuntu said:

Mar 27, 2017 6:55:58 GMT -6 cyborg said:

I'd check all connectors and terminations of the ignition system before I tore into it,,,,and start with the easy stuff first,,,,if the plug and connection tests don't work start with the coil,,,,oh I forgot,,,check all ground straps and frame terminations also

I was working the past few days. Just saw your post after trying a coil from Amazon. I could not get spark or a spark tester to light up. I'll check the connections, good thinking. I'm not seeing corrosion anywhere so far. If the starter kicks over doesn't than mean the solenoid relay is working? I was thinking next I'll test for voltage coming into the coil. Battery terminals wires look brand new on the new battery and it turns over strong. The fuse terminals look good. I'll do some more investigating. What about a 12v 25amp relay that I saw under a rubber boot cover? What does that feed? It was right next to the coil, had two thicker gauge wires that I haven't followed yet.

Oh, and it is an air puffer hose to the fuel pump from a nipple coming off the crankcase to control the fuel pump just like a boat.

Posted by phone

the hose going to the fuel pump is vacuum, the pump is vacuum powered. make sure it's in good condition, if your carb has a drain hose, open the drain and empty the old fuel  out of the bowl, and check to see if the pump is filling it again. the relay next to the coil is your starter relay, if the starter turns, it's fine. did you remove the manifold? there are a couple of gaskets on the spacer under it, and some O rings,I just made my own thicker gaskets and got rid of the O rings, terrible design, I sealed then with permatex anaerobic sealer. the spacer can crack,  and the manifold can crack,both which will kill vacuum, and stop it from  running 

[tomw]

Does the spark plug have the standard design, with bent side electrode and a center electrode, or is it a 'flat' design where the spark jumps from the center to the side across a 'ceramic' plate of some kind? Either way, if you are getting spark or multiple sparks(some systems create more than one for each 'fire'), then try again with the pre-mix squirted in behind the throttle plate.
If the seals on the crankshaft go bad, you will not get any fuel:air drawn into the crankcase, and then stuffed up the side of the bore into the combustion chamber. Also, the fuel pump might quit working as it depends on the pulses of pressure as the piston goes up and down, changing the 'free air' volume inside the crankcase. As the piston goes up, the volume embiggens, when the piston comes down, the volume descreases, and forms a pulse of pressure. IF the seals are good on the crankshaft at both ends.
You can check readily by putting a vacuum/pressure gauge on the connection that pump diaphragm makes to the crankcase. Connected, and cranking the engine, should produce pressure fluctuation on the gauge.
tom