Cracked crankcase where the exhaust bolts on.. By motley (Read 1,385 times)

[motley]

Brand new motor, I went to install the stock bolts into that general area, I used an actual wrench, nothing of power and after four full turns that area around where the bolt connects just shattered into two pieces.

The material is very light, it's not metal, and it's not magnetic in any form. I checked the other side where the shock connects and it's the same way.. 

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Is there any fashion of fixing this? I don't have a picture at the moment But it's where the top bolt goes..

[lostforawhile]

in the first place, you ordered the wrong engine, nothing is going to line up right, you are forcing a long case engine in a short case frame, the material is light and a magnet won't stick to it, because it's ALUMINUM. This has nothing to do with parts for scooters, they don't make the engines, they buy them and sell them. From what I can read, you said "four full turns" this means you torqued the crap out of the bolt, then complain when the aluminum breaks? you don't keep forcing something when it won't move, Many people here have tried to give you sound logical advice, which you seem to ignore, the first thing you should have done was compare the old and new engine, to make sure they matched, the fact that you attempted to install the wrong engine, then broke it, is no ones fault but your own.

[czmdiver]

Jan 31, 2018 21:39:13 GMT -6 lostforawhile said:

in the first place, you ordered the wrong engine, nothing is going to line up right, you are forcing a long case engine in a short case frame, the material is light and a magnet won't stick to it, because it's ALUMINUM. This has nothing to do with parts for scooters, they don't make the engines, they buy them and sell them. From what I can read, you said "four full turns" this means you torqued the crap out of the bolt, then complain when the aluminum breaks? you don't keep forcing something when it won't move, Many people here have tried to give you sound logical advice, which you seem to ignore, the first thing you should have done was compare the old and new engine, to make sure they matched, the fact that you attempted to install the wrong engine, then broke it, is no ones fault but your own.

 Exactly!!!
This kid continuously demonstrates that he is nothing but a Butcher, didn't do any homework and ordered the Wrong engine.
can't make anything run right, asks for help then outthinks himself with some wizardry that causes All his own problems over and over again...
This is when retail sales sucks to have a person like this wants to file a consumer type report when its clearly there own fault....
Kids got no business owning tools


I have personally dealt with Parts for Scooters. I had a costumer service issue with a front color matched wheel and they actually had people that Called Me back and in this day and age took my Word for the problem and sent me out another front color matched wheel NO CHARGE.. I offered to cover the shipping and they refused and shipped the product out no charge.. in my experience Parts for Scooters provided Stellar customer service...

[lostforawhile]

Feb 1, 2018 8:35:57 GMT -6 czmdiver said:

Jan 31, 2018 21:39:13 GMT -6 lostforawhile said:

in the first place, you ordered the wrong engine, nothing is going to line up right, you are forcing a long case engine in a short case frame, the material is light and a magnet won't stick to it, because it's ALUMINUM. This has nothing to do with parts for scooters, they don't make the engines, they buy them and sell them. From what I can read, you said "four full turns" this means you torqued the crap out of the bolt, then complain when the aluminum breaks? you don't keep forcing something when it won't move, Many people here have tried to give you sound logical advice, which you seem to ignore, the first thing you should have done was compare the old and new engine, to make sure they matched, the fact that you attempted to install the wrong engine, then broke it, is no ones fault but your own.

 Exactly!!!
This kid continuously demonstrates that he is nothing but a Butcher, didn't do any homework and ordered the Wrong engine.
can't make anything run right, asks for help then outthinks himself with some wizardry that causes All his own problems over and over again...
This is when retail sales sucks to have a person like this wants to file a consumer type report when its clearly there own fault....
Kids got no business owning tools


I have personally dealt with Parts for Scooters. I had a costumer service issue with a front color matched wheel and they actually had people that Called Me back and in this day and age took my Word for the problem and sent me out another front color matched wheel NO CHARGE.. I offered to cover the shipping and they refused and shipped the product out no charge.. in my experience Parts for Scooters provided Stellar customer service...

oh lord, I can see him out there trying to stick a magnet to aluminum, "AH HA!! it's not metal!!" 

[motley]

It wasn't full turns like that, I put the bolt on just enough with my fingers to ensure it's not cross threaded, turned it in, and turned it out, moved freely at that point. At that point I had a lot of turning to do, and that's when I hit the fourth turn and it split, it did not even make it all the way..

I have a welder that says he can fix it for a costly price, but he said it doesn't appear to be aluminum but pot metal instead. He said he could be wrong..

About Parts for scooter, yeah I was a little ragged as I felt the case was of cheaper material at first as it's the exact bolt from the other motor. My only thought is someone might of opened the hole up on the old motor and cut new threads. No clue, but it's just a thought.

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To be honest I haven't really ignored what everyone else has said as the scooter is not even on the road yet, I have only slowly putted on it in the driveway, and turned it on to allow it to run for some time, typically allow it to idle for 30 minutes a day. I play with the throttle a few but that's it. Just trying to speed up the break in so when I actually get to drive the moped It shouldn't take long to break it in the rest of the way, the oil looks darker all ready..
I might change the oil once it's road ready, I might put Castro in and run the hell out of it then do a synthetic oil change as I know the engine isn't really broke in yet and I'm not trying to break it in with dirty oil.

Or is there a different way I should go about this?

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Also I read somewhere long ago that shell released most of there info on there oil and that there Diesel synthetic is the best to run in these little engines? It's something odd like that?

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To be honest I am a computer programmer, I'm decently well with tools and being mechanically inclined, Heck I practically grew up in a body and frame shop. I suppose I'm not that good, but better than most of the people messing with these scooters.

[lostforawhile]

I'm not explaining the oil again, I already explained it in detail in your other thread, to break off a heavy piece of cast aluminum, on one of the strongest points on the engine, you have to have torqued the hell out of it somehow, it probably won't weld well, as it's cast, and it's difficult to weld cast aluminum, you can, but I wouldn't recommend it on critical points

[richardv]

Is the bolt metric as the case would be or has it been replaced by SAE? That could cause such a disaster with little effort. I personally retaped a stripped out metric hole for an SAE bolt because that is what I had and the inch was just slightly larger.

[lostforawhile]

Feb 3, 2018 6:16:39 GMT -6 richardv said:

Is the bolt metric as the case would be or has it been replaced by SAE? That could cause such a disaster with little effort. I personally retaped a stripped out metric hole for an SAE bolt because that is what I had and the inch was just slightly larger.

this was a  brand new engine, but my guess would be the bolt hole was misaligned or he grabbed a standard bolt from somewhere, the fact that it's the wrong engine for the frame would likely make the mounting points not line up, and trying to force the bolt into the mounting ear snapped it off 

[motley]

No the bolt is metric, I did an inspection that night and failed to mention due to what was posted above ^.

That my current bolts have a slight nudge where the thread ends. I think what happened when I put the bolt in and got to the fourth turn the bolt instantly cracked it where the thread ended causing the hole to crack open.

On the other motor I never had this issue, Like I said I think someone opened the hole to be bigger.
I measured the width on the crank case where that bolt goes, and on the 10 inch case [blown motor] that piece is slightly wider oddly, and the hole is bigger and looks factory.

I'm pretty sure I mentioned my blown motor is the original motor for my bike which is a 2008 model. That 2008 model was considered to be a long case as I measured it out and it returned right at 10 inches. The one I ordered is 10.75.

I still had to use a pry bar to push the tire in a little to get it past that part of the crank case. But nothing too crazy.

And that's how far off I am for everything to meet up.. 3/4 of extra length and everything would meet up...
To be honest I might of been better off with a short case engine, but I would of probably needed a shorter swing arm. Or lengthen the hole a little if the case did not get in the way, either way I think I would of been out of luck

[motley]

Also, I never "Forced" the screw in, I put the wrench on after slightly putting it on with my fingers... I was also running out of day light at 7:40. My eye's adjusted but..

[lostforawhile]

you have the wrong engine, there are two sizes of 139 qmb engines, they dont measure the same, of course the holes look different, it's a different engine

[motley]

Is it bad if I where to get an axle spacer for now to bypass that second shock?

My the wheel is designed for it but I don't mind upgrading to bigger wheels that do not have this gap for the swing arm, in return I won't really need but one bolt hole for the exhaust at the moment. The muffler is paper weight.

I do not mind doing this if it's not going to crack the other side of the crank case where the suspension goes, something tells me the swing arm is needed on this frame for sway.

I could be wrong.

Most scooters do not have this, but if it's safe I will bypass it and have a professional welder take a look at the frame to possibly reinforce it anywhere that might be needed if it where for sway. ..

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So in other words:
Is it safe to bypass?
Is it possible that on the other side of the crank case where the shock connects, could that get cracked like this hole due to more tension on that side or something?
And adding an extra axle spacer fore the length of the bearings, is that safe?

I will eventually replace the front and rear wheels, just not right now.

Look forward to a response

Maybe someone has a nice link for different sized wheels?

[lostforawhile]

this ought to be good

[motley]

Well the worst that could happen is the other side cracking/splitting..

I did what I will consider a flex test on the side that currently does not have a shock, seemed to favor slightly twisting on the side I was pushing on, and that's the side without a shock.

Is there anyone here that has a stock 50cc scooter, that could take a picture of where the rear shock bracket is on there frame? It would be nice to do a compare to a frame with one shock. It's possible it might need to be moved a little, maybe not.

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The other thought if this is a disaster, would i run into issues if I wanted to attempt a crankcase swap? From my new motor to the old one? Then there would be no issue technically..
If not I might just order a new crank case, preferably an exact replacement

[lostforawhile]

the worst that can happen, is your rigged up engine and rigged up suspension missing a shock, and welded together, can break going down the road, and  send you flying in front of an oncoming truck.  You probably could have sold the wrong engine, without too much loss, and gotten the right one,  but now that major pieces are broken, it's mostly parts