Enricher Circuit and More... By tk3000 (Read 3,938 times)

[tk3000]

Hello Folks,

I tested the auto-chock/enricher circuit in my 150cc and obtained the following:

1) Resistance of the enricher itself => 8 ohms
2) There is no voltage when the key is in the ON position, the voltage only starts to go to the enricher circuit when the engine is running and is measurable as DC voltage (thus it should come from the voltage regulator) and the voltage is around 5.6 Volts

Are the data above sound/correct?

Thanks,
tk3000

[tk3000]

Sorry about the absence of response. I was away and did not check the forum for a while. That bike has been victimized with electrical grimilins that seemed difficult to sort out, and sometime they can be intermitent but for now are more likely constant and permanent. I checked the voltage going to the enricher in AC mode and fount out about 8 Volts, so I went to the voltage regulator and the output from the yellow wire seems to be around 8 Volts sometimes. Below are some measurements taken from the Voltage Regulator:

AC Voltage Output:
Yellow: 10 (rough idle) , 11 (higher rpm)
White: 28 (rough idel), 44 (higher rpm)

DC Voltage Output:
Red: 15 (rough idel), 15.5 (higher rpm)

Note: there is no light on the headlights.

I then replaced the voltage regulator with another one (a new black one I bought off ebay). Once I did that I noticed smoke coming from the dashboard: one of the bulb that illuminates the inside of the dashboard (instrument cluster panel) was smoking like craze (the bulb rubber socket was melting down and the bulb producing a very strong light for its nominal capacity) so it seemed that the new voltage regulator wasn't doing it job of regulating and reconditioning the voltage (once measured at the regulator itselt I found out that the AC output was too high which then confirmed the suspicion).

I already replace the stator, and last time I checked it was ok. I also soldered all the connectors of the stator and created a secondary ground connecting the engine to the frame as shown below. My suspicion was then: bad connection and thus high resistance somewhere, bad ground somewhere, some small short somewhere. Maybe the electrical issue is originated inside the instrument cluster since I checked most of main harness for resistance (all seems ok) and for any short (found none).

Secondary path to Ground (the primary one at the stator housing does not inspire much confidence):




Harness reconditioned:



When I checked the white wire coming from the stator (not connected to the voltage regulator) the readout is about 45 AC volts (Idle) and 65 (high rmp).

Apart from the electrical issues and absence of headlight the bike starts and run fine


Any insight would be appreciated

[tk3000]

Something with the stator is not right? Should have more AC than what you are saying, look at the system analyis above. What voltage regualtor did you use?

=>Most of the measurements were made at the Voltage Regulator end with the VR [Voltage Regulator] connected to the wires (gang connector) that comes off the harness and that are originated from the stator. But if I disconnect the gang connector of the VR
(so that the measurements from the stator is not affected by any discrepancy or irregularity off the RG circuit) and measure the AC Voltage coming from the stator at the gang connector that is supposed to be hooked up to the VR the voltage that I obtained is the following: the readout is about 45 AC volts (Idle) and 65 (high rmp). In other words that is the voltage that is generated at the stator and sent to the VR.

New Voltage regulator that I bough off ebay:

cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120622960351&viewitem=&category=43976

(some 150cc uses a bigger one, but my fiji150cc uses the smaller one similar [if not compatible] with the ones used on 50cc)

Need to remember the engine is mounted in a way by bolts going through hard rubber bushings which actually isolate it from the grounding system, it must have a good ground.

=> I realize that, that is why I created a second path to the ground (connecting the frame directly to the engine case)

=> Possibly a frayed or partially damaged/deteriorated ground wire were causing some smoke on the ground going to the engine case (fan cover bolt) and also caused serious difficulties and hesitation in running the electrical starter. Since I created such alternative heavy duty path to the ground connecting frame directly to to the engine case I never had a single episode of smoking in such ground wire (fan cover bolt) and the electrical starter now always works flawlessly.



The Bali wiring diagram in the tech section works for a lot of scooters so you can probably use it as a reference.



=> Thanks for the insight and the links ( I will take a closer look at them).

=>To make things worse all my headlight bulbs were burned out by the other brand new Voltage Regulator that I installed. The yellow wire that comes from the stator to the VR is for the lighting circuit. The yellow wire goes to the voltage regulator because the AC voltage still needs to be regulated or you would blow every bulb on that circuit as soon as the engine was revved. So it seems that such new VR simply did no regulated the AC Voltage directed to the lighting circuit. Such new voltage regulator (a black one advertised as gy6 150cc Voltage Regulator on ebay) probably was bad, so bad that caused wreak havoc in the my scooter electrical system (all bulbs went south). The previous one was a gray one bough sometime ago (and also advertised as been compatible with gy6 150cc).

tk

[tk3000]

I don't have a specific questions because I am not sure about what the root or roots of the problem are, and apparently there are a multitude of issues going at the same time, and all such issues are electrical related. It stems from the fact that quality of the harness and the very soft copper connections (made of pure copper) and other components of the system are rather low and very often the wires are simply hold and hanged on poor soldered connections without any type of basic mechanical relief mechanism whatsoever. To make things worse I bought a voltage regulator that simply fried all the bulbs in my AC lighting system because it failed to simply regulate the voltage for the lighting circuit.





The secondary path to the ground that I created solved the starting issue for good, and never had any sign of overheating wire in the perimeter of the stator again.

And as I mentioned before the problem not only is of electrical nature but it is also is not circumvented to any single part, region, or system, but is spread throughout different parts.
Sometimes I have to ask myself if something whose quality is so poor is worth the time and effort...

Anyhow today I found some time to work on the bike again, and found out another problem the light switch simply wasn't bridging the yellow (live wire) with the other wires (for low and high beams), so I fixed that small thing and now there is voltage going to the main headlights (but it is too low).

I am testing from different points (or with different circuits connected or disconnected to the system) of the in the system, as follows: The main problem more or less isolated now: 1) very low voltage coming from the stator from the yellow wire when the stator is connected to the main harness and voltage regulator => about 8 to 9 Volts AC (normal idle) seems very low specially considering that there is no load from the lighting system; 2) But when the stator is not connected to harness at all, the voltage coming out of the stator (yellow wire) is around 20 Volts AC; 3) When the Yellow wire from the stator is connected to the Main Harness but the main Harness (and by extension the stator) is not connected to the voltage regulator the voltage measured is 0 Volts AC. Maybe a wire connected directly from the yellow wire coming from the stator to the voltage regulator could be a possible approach, since the the yellow wire inside the main harness may be crushed, crunched and/or frayed. With every connected and the bike running: DC voltage for the charging system is ok (13 to 14 volts dc), and AC Voltage going to the CDI and Ignition system is ok.

Sorry, but I went above my one paragraph (or few lines) quota since I had more or less explain all the issues that cropped up together out of Roketa/jmstar standard of quality concerning the electrical system of the fiji150cc. But you should only take into account the paragraph above, it nails down the problem as it presents itself now.

[Bashan]

When hooked up to the voltage regulator (VR) my yellow and white put out between 8-14v AC depending on the RPM. Unhooked the white makes substantially more anywhere from 20 to 40. The yellow is a little more subdued at 10 to 20. Different stators make different voltages, everything is ballpark. If your getting more than say, 14v AC while hooked to the VR then you have a bad VR and it's burning things up. If all of that is good, you may have bad wiring and/or a short. If your unregulated stator voltages are much above the 20 and 40v AC on the yellow and white, your stator may be bad. Rich

[tk3000]

Rich, sorry for the delay in my follow up. I am posting the video that I took on occasion of the electrical overload caused by the deregulated voltage regulator (I happened to have my camera at hand on occasion...).

Well part of the reason for such electrical overload and the burn down of the lamps and other potential electrical devices was because the voltage regulator wasn't doing its job of stepping down the voltage for the lighting circuit. The voltage dedicated to the lighting circuit is too high (specially when there is not much load on the system, in the video above my headlights were disconnected), and thus the voltage regulator steps down the voltage by means of shunt the excess of current to the ground then converting and dissipating it into heat.

And as far as wiring I tested and retested everything: the resitance accross the wires and with the ground seems to be ok (about 0.03 ohms). During measurements I flexed, jolted, and shaked the wires without noticing any difference or lapse on the measurement readouts. I also removed the entire main harness and cut the wire looms, and found nothing visibly wrong. Since the gang connections are the weakest link I replaced some of them with much better connector. I also soldered some joints that were simply spliced together. Looking at hindsight I should have replaced the wires with better ones as you suggested.

As of now, at an idle of around 1500 rpm the bike is able to keep up with the lighting circuit but the lights are sort of dim, but when I am riding it the intensity of the headlights is more or less ok. I replaced the OEM 18 watts H4 headlights (two bulbs) with halogen ones (they are also 18 watts, but halogens). As far as voltage for the lighting circuit: at idle => 10 AC Volts when the headlights are OFF, and around 6 AC Volts when the headlights are ON. At first it makes sense to have voltage drop since the headlights introduces a heavy load on the lighting circuit, but I was wondering if such measurements are ok or not.

Thanks,
tk