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Post by mauiboy on Feb 1, 2011 5:02:34 GMT -6
The scoot : 2008 roketa mc75 150 gy6 stock purc,hased virtually new (200 miles) in Jan 2011 (so likely crated for 2.5 years).
Pertinent info: My commute is 2 miles, i stretch it to 4 or 5 to try help the problem Before I started commuting it was only used for long fun rides of 10-20 miles at 25 ish mph It runs perfectly once running It was wired by escaped mental patients I work nights often so getting parts can be a pain, hell getting tools can be a pain! so I want to try narrow things down before i kill my ride to work
So whats the symptoms doc:
About a week ago it starts being reluctant to start, initially taking more attempts with the starter motor then kicks, then more kicks. I figured the short trips were not replenishing the battery so I got a brand name battery tender from ace and charged it up. I did notice it only took 10 minutes for it to switch from under 8% charge to over 80% then maybe another 3 hours to top up the rest. 12v 7a battery, 1.25a charger (i forget the brand, green packaging, well known brand at least when you aren't tired!). I put the charged battery in and it starts first push of the button. I hop on to go to work and its fine, same the next morning coming home. The next trip to work requires a kick start.
I know I need at least a multimeter to start to diagnose this (couldn't bring my tools when I moved statside so I am rebuilding), but my first thoughts are the battery just isn't holding a charge well which is exasperated by short trips, even taking the longer higher speed route doesn't help much but its only 5 miles instead of 2.
My logic so far rules out the stator (lights run fine and they run direct from the stator right?) although there could be an issue with the stator charging the battery (cut wire, bust rectifier?).
The plug, cdi, coil etc should be ok as it runs fine when its running, its runs perfectly tbh.
The auto choke could maybe be an issue but that wouldnt be fixed by a fresh battery?
The vac pump could be starting to go perhaps? a very slight leak maybe? Its close to the top of the list for replacement after the lights get swapped to leds (in the post right now).
The starter motor seems fine as it does work when the battery is topped up.
So, on the understanding that I know you can't give a conclusive diagnosis based on this is my logic so far roughly ok or am I way off base? Do napa carry a compatible battery? (not much choice on maui!). Please feel free to tell me if I am way off base and / or let me know your thoughts! Thanks in advance!
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Post by mauiboy on Feb 1, 2011 5:16:32 GMT -6
I forgot to add the second most likely suspect is the short commute. Tough to solve. I am hoping the LED's free up an amp or so. Then I guess the next option is a bigger stator. I am a little worried that I have read that the larger (morecoils ) stators leave the bike unable to start on the kickstart alone. Plus a new stator requires more tools than I have now. 5 or so miles at 45mph should be enough to replenish the battery, especially after it starting so quickly the previous time. Cold temps shouldnt be an issue, under 65-70 is rare, mostly its 70-80 right now, hotter during the day so nothing too cold, although perhaps too hot for the battery during the day? I will try charge the battery again when I get home (fingers crossed I get home!)
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Post by looker on Feb 1, 2011 5:27:45 GMT -6
You're right in saying you need a multimeter. The battery should be up in the high 12v, low 13v readings if it's healthy, even if it's sat for more than a week or so. Once the engine is running, revving the engine should give you a volt reading up around 14 or more. If the voltage readings are low after the scoot has sat for a day, the battery is dead. If voltage readings do not rise when engine is revved, you either have a problem with the stator or maybe the voltage regulator/rectifier.
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Post by mauiboy on Feb 1, 2011 5:36:27 GMT -6
Thanks! I used to have two of them but didn't bring them when I moved time to pick one up tomorrow I guess. Any better than others or will any generic $20-30 radioshack one do?
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Post by looker on Feb 1, 2011 7:35:05 GMT -6
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Post by mauiboy on Feb 1, 2011 10:25:32 GMT -6
Thats great thanks!
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Post by mauiboy on Feb 2, 2011 0:10:20 GMT -6
ok so battery tests fine, bugger! I was hoping for the easy fix. So if it has trouble starting when 'cold' (i.e. not run but with 65-75f ambient) and requires a kick, but perhaps has a little less trouble in the middle of the day when its a bit warmer and much less trouble after 10-15 minutes of running then a quick 15 minute stop into ace hardware whats the most likely suspect? Plug / autochoke / vacuum lines ? Any thoughts gratefully received! mahalos in advance.
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Post by Alleyoop on Feb 2, 2011 0:27:18 GMT -6
If you are saying it is hard starting only when it is cold then I would suspect the Auto Choke is not working. But you can see if it is that really quick. Take it off and if you see a SPRING between the Rubber Holder and the Plunger it is NOT WORKING(it is EXTENDED) and not allowing extra fuel when cold. If it is RETRACTED then it is ok.
How many miles on the scoot if you haven't adjusted the Valves that can also cause hard starting. Alleyoop
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Post by mauiboy on Feb 2, 2011 0:43:46 GMT -6
Will try check that tonight or tomorrow thanks! about 350 miles total. She purrs nicely when running so Im not thinking valves immediately but I just picked up a feeler gauge today to check anyway. As soon as I get chance theres the oil changes, plug change to something decent, perhaps a coil change and replacing the fuel lines / petcock / filters happening just as a matter of course. The HOA loves me
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Post by Alleyoop on Feb 2, 2011 0:57:04 GMT -6
Mauiboy, Yes, it is an ENRICHER it adds fuel when COLD then after the engine starts it heats it up and the Plunger and Needle EXTEND out and shut off the Extra Fuel, takes about 3 minutes for it to Extend out to shut off the extra fuel. Alleyoop Here is what it looks like if you do not know about it They call it an AUTOMATIC CHOKE.
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Post by mauiboy on Feb 2, 2011 0:57:46 GMT -6
Thanks! I dropped down to 89 from 92. After a few runs on that I may drop again to 87 and see how that goes! Will pick up some seafoam as well next time I am in town. Thanks for the advice!
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Post by Alleyoop on Feb 2, 2011 1:09:15 GMT -6
Yea, Seafoam is really good stuff to keep your lines and carb passaages clean. BUT only put 1 OZ per gallon of gas. I use it every time I fill my 5 gallon gas can. I put in 5 OZ in the tank then go and fill the 5 gallon with 89. Haven't had any problems with my Carb getting clogged since I bought the Trike in June of 2009. Alleyoop
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Post by mauiboy on Feb 5, 2011 14:10:03 GMT -6
Soooooo, after battling the ridiculous wiring job the ape at the garage created at the rear end of the scooter I decided to quickly check the autochoke. I didn't actually need to remove it, it wasn't plugged in to anything. Not that there is anything to plug it into, the wiring is just neatly bundled up. I shall attempt to rig a splice from the yellow wire from the stator and ground the other and see how much having a working autochoke improves things. I have a sneaking suspicious they simply set it to run rich and idle high and just left it. freaking jokers.
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Post by mauiboy on Feb 6, 2011 1:00:10 GMT -6
ok soooo, tail end wiring half fixed, engine oil change done, gear oil change to do and fixing the autochoke to do.
Am I right in thinking that if the autochoke is not wired up then it will not be enriching the fuel flow at startup i.e. the machine will in effect be running lean. I have a sneaking suspicion that the potted plant who assembled the scoot at the b&m place (which rents them out as well, scary!) ran it rich and upped the idle to make up for any issues on startup which would be less noticeable anyway due to the normally warm temps. I am leaning towards a manual choke, its not rocket science to operate one, I'll have to see how the auto choke does when its actually connected (or am I being crazy and it is supposed to not be connected?). Any thoughts before I wire it into the harness? Again, thanks for all the assistance! Its hugely appreciated!
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Post by Alleyoop on Feb 6, 2011 1:23:37 GMT -6
Mauiboy, Its the other way around, if it is DISCONNECTED it will act as if you have the CHOKE on all the time. So Disconnected will feed it more fuel all the time( that is if the Plunger is RETRACTED). So I would still advice you to take the ENRICHER out and LOOK at the Plunger. If the Plunger is RETRACTED then you are getting extra fuel ALL the time. IF it is EXTENDED then that would cause hard starting when COLD. Alleyoop If its disconnected and it looks like this when you pull it off it is bad: If it disconnected and it looks like this then you are getting EXTRA FUEL ALL the time:
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