Question about oil cooling???? By sprocket (Read 1,335 times)

[sprocket]

Would it not be possible to draw oil from the valve cover, run it through an oil cooler by gravity and run it back into the dipstick hole?

I recently tested a GY6 engine with the valve cover off and it is pumping a huge amount of oil up there. I collected about 3/4 of a cup in about 20 seconds!

It seems like a logical choice. Valve cover are cheap so tapping one and adding a brass nipple would be easy...Also in the inside there is lots of room to add a small rectangular 'cup' to catch the oil.

The oil would then simply run through any kind of cooler and flow back to the engine through the dip stick hole. This is a standard metric thread, but I haven't found out what size yet...

Comments welcome...

[stled]

Sprocket, good idea, got me picturing the engine. If I remember correctly, the oil from the oil pump flows up to the head though the passage for a head bolt or stud. It returns, after lubricating the cam and valve components, down the cam chain passage to the crankcase.

I have noticed several mentions (in my brief time here) that the cam chain passage my be one of the hottest areas of the cylinder wall, so the oil returning to the crankcase may provide added cooling.

I do know enough about the casting internals too make any sense of what it would take to divert the oil pump output through a cooler before it arrives at the head.

I do know that I would pay someone $100 for a do-it-myself kit to keep oil temps at 230 F average and 260 F peaks

More comments welcome

Ed

[Bashan]

I agree with Ed that it's a cooling and not lubrication issue that prevents diverting much oil from running down past the head. The oil is carried past the cooling fins by gravity down to the case in much greater amounts than is needed for lubrication of a smallish engine as pointed out by Sprocket. Oh and EARTHMAN, you rule too!! Now, I was thinking about this on the way to work the other day....sigh, it's a long ride inside a motorcycle helmet. Anyway, we used these little pumps in chem lab that were simple in design but would handle all kinds of chemicals and heat. They're called peristaltic pumps and they use a simple roller against some tubing. I found an example of them online after a quick search. I don't know that those on the link would work in the GY6 application but they do have a 12v DC model. What if you used something like on this link, or any low volume pump, to ferry oil up to an installed fitting on the valve cover that dumps into a cup/receptacle on the inside? Then, have that hooked up to a line, via a lower fitting on the cover, back to the outside that runs to an oil cooler. Whatever oil arrives in the cup would either spill over onto the head, or run down through the cooler and into the filler spout. The beauty of it is who cares if some air gets in the lines or not? Gravity would eventually push it on through to the case where it's pretty frothy already I would imagine from being beat by the crank. An obvious negative is two oil fittings, but it's gravity feed so no pressure and little or no leakage. Comments? Rich

[sprocket]

Cool pumps... I wonder if they would take the heat? I suspect the vinyl tube would deteriorate fairly quickly...

Yes, air would not be a problem because the valve cover vent would still be open...

I had a look at the engine and I'm not certain there is enough 'drop' between the head and the
filler pipe. There is some drop, but I don't know if there would be enough once you got a cooler in the works. There certainly would be enough drop to the bottom drain plug...which could be easy to adapt with a brass elbow...

What I'm trying to do is to figure out a way of doing an oil cooling system without drilling the block and going for parts that are cheap to replace.. like the drain plug and valve cover...

That way if someone messes up it is just a few bucks...

I guess one way to test the theory would be to remove the inner plate from the valve cover and mount it with the air vent elbow at the bottom... turn it upside down.. this would tell you very quickly if there is oil flow there...

Anyone willing to test this theory?

[sprocket]

Sorta like this....?

Attachments:

[sprocket]

Checked those pumps... they have Tygon and Fluran tubes.. that will handle both gas and oil OK

[Alleyoop]

Sounds very COOL, Now who is going to be the Science Project on this. Need to find a small Radiator and to test it out real quick disconnect it by the Plug and see how it will run down.
Now since the pump pumps into the Filter then out into the crankcase and up the passage to the head. Would it not be maybe better to use the Other Drain Plug on the CVT side.
Also a pump would make sure the oil is actually being put back into the Crankcase.
With all the pressure inside the Crank just Gravity may not allow the oil flow back in and get stuck in the radiator and hose.
Alleyoop

[stled]

Only one tubing type listed as usable for motor oil, but none rated for operation above 80c temp.
I have not found any oil rated 130c or better pumps under $150 and using 12vdc at 2+ amps. I did find some used 12vdc oil pumps for turbine cooling in turbo equipped cars.

Another thought, how much oil can we have circulating in our cooler system without also having some additional oil storage? Can we use a one-way valve to prevent oil drain back and just add enough additional oil to fill the cooler, pump and lines. Also, what about a real oil filter while we are at it?

It's a beautiful day here in STL, MO. so I'm going to give the brain a rest and go ride.

Lets keep this thread rolling with the good ideas.

Ed

[sprocket]

>>the Other Drain Plug on the CVT side

Alley, I just checked my engine and it doesn't have a second drain plug... ;-(

I agree a small pump could be mounted after the cooler and it would draw the oil through the
cooler and 'push it into the sump...

I would really like to try this without a pump, but experimentation would be required...

I would simply use an inline fuel filter... they will pass oil no problem, certainly sintered brass will...it might also work as a condenser . Glass type and you could see the oil flowing...

www.motorcycle-superstore.com/3/13/562/25331/ITEM/Drag-Specialties-Clear-Fuel-Filter.aspx?WT.ac=SLIsearch

or

Visu Filter Sintered

www.bikebandit.com/brand/visu-filter

Here is a 255 LPH pump not sure it will take the heat so it may have to get outta the kitchen!!!

cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/EFI-TURBO-SUPERCHARGED-ELECTRIC-FURL-PUMP-255-LPH-KIT-/330560875417?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4cf6f6ab99#ht_2494wt_1167

Carter fuel pumps... been around since the model T
www.carterfueldelivery.com/fuelpumps/hi_performance_fp.php

[Bashan]

I found this inline filter specifically for oil when Runningslow was wrestling with his Matrix:

Click image for link

He thought they wouldn't hold up to the heat though.

As much as I've wrestled with my naked Frankenscoot I never noticed how little drop there is from the valve cover to the filler spout; great image there Sprocket, it says it all. OK, how about mount the receptacle cup at the top of the valve cover and mount the cooler sideways? I'm going to have to go rest my brain too Ed..... . You'd definately need a valve or some way to control the oil level in the case. I like the idea of a quick connect Alley, good point. Oh, and clear tubing would be nice so you could see the oil flow. Rich

[sprocket]

Those filters are polycarbonate plastic...the softening point is 267 deg C. They are open to the air and if it is placed after the cooler they should be just fine...the sintered ones are about 75 microns which is about 18 times better than the GY6 screen!

Ya, clear tubing that will take the heat... vinyl won't cut it... need to be some engineered plastic...Tygon clear etc...

Ya, sideways with a SCOOP!!!! Force a whole bunch of air through the sucker...or a fan for those stuck in traffic...;-)

[sprocket]

I have built systems like this for rotary vane compressors...

I just wondered if it could be adapted...to the GY6

[sprocket]

The NCY after market coolers are pumping from the oil drain around the rad and back to the oil drain...

www.mbe-motorsports.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/69/products_id/239

I have wondered what makes these function because the take-off point and the return point are just about the same...there is no pressure drop to obtain circulation...

I have heard that these systems can cause cavitation of the oil pump, but it is just hear say


Here is one that runs from the head... not GY6 obviously... but a similar idea, at least partially.

www.mbe-motorsports.com/catalog/product_info.php/manufacturers_id/2/products_id/248

Finally here is a gear pump that works with oil: 1.8L a minute

www.mbe-motorsports.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/69/products_id/328