motor swap? several questions. By epyon96r (Read 7,514 times)

[epyon96r]

Hey all, lets say I have two scoots, scooter A is 150gy6 with DC cdi. Scooter B is 150gy6 with AC cdi. Can i swap motor/stator A into Scooter B with no issue?

I did this and it ran but, I dont think I wired the stator correctly. Stator wires for scooter B are 3 yellow and green(ground). Did not know how correctly. Ill let yall know more and progress develops, its just too cold for working on it right now.

[Alleyoop]

Yes, you will have problems.
The scoot with the DC CDI it gets 12Vs from the battery when you turn the KEY ON. The AC CDI gets it Voltage from the Stator. Also the Regulator/Rectifier for each will be different. Also the Headlights may not work and you may have rig up a switch to turn them on. One of the yellow wires feeds the accessories and lighting.

How many poles does the DC STATOR have.
Alleyoop

[epyon96r]

Im unsure, I could not get stator off. what if I kept the ac stator with the Ac scoot? Would that work?

[Bashan]

You couldn't get the flywheel off and you need one of these:

You can read the tutorial right here. The stator is underneath, and comes off with the removal of some 8mm bolts.

Nov 26, 2013 18:56:33 GMT -6 epyon96r said:

Hey all, lets say I have two scoots, scooter A is 150gy6 with DC cdi. Scooter B is 150gy6 with AC cdi. Can i swap motor/stator A into Scooter B with no issue?

No, you will have issues as Alley pointed out.

First off, I hate the terms DC stator and AC stator. A stator is AC, end of story. If it produces DC it's a generator. However, Alley is not wrong in referring to them as AC and DC. It is a misnomer that has become accepted nomenclature.

As Alley points out, the distinction of an AC and DC system is how the CDI is powered: the DC CDI from the battery, the AC CDI from the stator. The stator powering the AC CDI is different from the stator powering the DC CDI. The stator powering the AC CDI has a coil dedicated to power the AC input on an AC CDI. It's called the magneto coil, the one that's all wrapped up. The red/black wire that comes off of it runs to the same port on the CDI that the DC system uses for powering the CDI.

So your scooter A with the DC CDI has no magneto coil on the stator and no red/black wire for the AC CDI. If you put your stator with the magneto coil from engine B on engine A, it will work with the AC CDI on bike B since you will have the red/black to power the AC CDI. You must use a stator with the AC magneto coil for an AC CDI. Here is a common AC CDI system:

The stator for powering a DC CDI has no magneto coil and no red/black wire. There is some advantage to a DC CDI system in that you have more coils for generating power for the bike. You don't "lose" one coil to the CDI. Here is a three phase DC system powering HID lights. The white/black killwire may be absent from some of these designs when the ignition switch shuts the bike down.

Anytime you have three yellow wires off of your stator it's a three phase stator. You have more power generated with a smoother voltage profile. A three phase stator must have a rectifier capable of turning the AC current from the three wires into DC. Here is an example of a R/R designed for a three phase stator:

There is variation of the output wires, they deliver DC power and sometimes one wire does AC. If you have a rectifier with three input wires, you must use a three phase stator that has three yellow wires or you will not have power on the output wires. Hook the yellows up in no particular order and ground the green. Then test the outputs with a multi to determine their current profile.

Usually it's easier to swap a stator with a magneto coil to an engine and then use an AC CDI. Here is a wiring diagram of a generic 150cc. Notice the CDI with five wires:

Now a system with a non-three phase DC CDI, notice the CDI with four wires:

[mikey34]

Bashan, If he can't get it going, after THAT!^ Explanation... Epyon This SHOULD DEF get you going!!! GOOD LUCK! LET US KNOW!

[epyon96r]

Im sorry I took so long to reply,but here it is, thx for the info, docs, I had an 11 pole 3 phase stator,(three yellow wires)and it is no good anymore(some wire got physically cut).Today I was finally able to buy a new 11 pole stator. But....its not 3 phase??? heres a pic. can I not use this one. besides wire color, it looks the same as a 3 phase

[epyon96r]

oh and the original stator on the ac(wired) was 8 pole. the Dc Wired scoot is the 11 pole, and I had to order the flywheel puller.

p.s. Thanks bashan for the knowledge bomb, i was googling and turning up nothing as clear as this.

[Bashan]

OK, cul, I've wanted to work through this particular stator and R/R and see how this esoteric system works. Now first let me say that I don't know everything about scooters or any other field for that matter. I've been around scooters for a relatively short time and don't profess to know everything about them, I'm still learning too. People that spend time sifting through what I post to try and find a typo or spin a post to look like a egregious error need to get a life and quit lurking around Scooter Doc. Compare my original work with anybody else and you'll find a boatload of posts that have my photos, and my text, I rarely cut and paste. I put it out there, a lot of it, when there's that much there's some mistakes. I'm not bragging, I just want the clown that's a distraction for the scooter community, and sucking the joy out of scooters, to grow up. That's all I'm going to say now, or in the future, fine' I'm done with that, it's history for me. I'm sorry to post that on your thread epyon96r, it just came out.

Maybe somebody has mapped this stator out but I can't find a correct analysis. So, first you're correct pal, it fires an AC CDI. We know this because it has the large magneto coil that sends AC to the two port connector on the CDI via the R/B wire:

Then you have your Blue/Some other color wire (usually), that is the trigger and it terminates on the CDI. Bear with me epyon96r, this actually relates to your project.

That leaves us with the W, Y, Pink, and G wire to account for. So could those three wires be three phase and they just happen to sport flamboyant colors? Well no, the pigtail from the stator also has a ground. That means the body of the stator is grounded and the AC cycle runs through each colored wire and the stator ground. You can see the ground soldered to the frame of the stator on the right side:

Back and forth, back and forth, faster with RPMs, back and forth....scuse me a second... I am so sorry, those AC cycles get me. A three phase stator would have three yellows and a trigger. That's why they denote the inside of a three phase stator without the contiguous coils having a ground

There's no need for a magneto red/black wire because the CDI is fired from a black wire off of the ignition switch.

Let me stop here a minute. There are no hard and fast rules for the color of the wires. Shoot, sometimes the manual's schematic doesn't agree with the actual wires. So KNOW YOUR WIRE LOCATIONS. Know where the trigger goes into the CDI for example, don't rely on the diagrams too much. Everybody still awake? When I taught high school for a few years the kids would sometimes lose interest and start talking or drift off. I had one of those hand held marine horns and would give the class a blast. It was hilarious to see an ego driven senior levitate a couple feet out of his desk. Ah....good times.

So the important thing now is to get the right R/R. Scrappy has this one but I'm not sure it's for that stator:

So confirm that before ordering and make sure your bolt holes are the same. Here's the likely wire functions with an R/R in case you need to hard wire it. The red wire runs to the battery and an inline fuse is often present. That green wire is a ground so find it a snug place on the frame near the battery. That black wire is PROBABLY 12v DC and runs to the ignition switch. That yellow will be regulated to 12v AC and will power many of the lights. The pink may just be input or it could be AC or DC output. You can test these wires with your multi to find out what they do. Install the R/R onto a frame rail (or where ever), hook your multi up in series with the wire and start the bike. It should start if you have the trigger hooked up and the ignition coil connected. The CDI will have to be energized by the magneto wire. The guy to talk to about these 11 coil stators is John, the TVnACman. He did an 11 coil upgrade and also sells them. He's a good, trustworthy person. I'll see if I can work you up a wiring diagram for this pal. Let us know if you need help.

[tvnacman]

The stator you posted a picture of that Rich tagged will work for an ac cdi . What makes you think the stator is bad ?

John

[epyon96r]

K bashan I lied on accident. It was a 12pole 3phase original. But now I have 11 pole, I will connect it like you said without the magneto black red and let u know. Ac Man I will post pic of for ya

[epyon96r]

so now its just scoot A with a dc wiring, with a broke 12 pole stator. I switched in the 11 pole minus the black/red magneto. Ill have to wait til tomorrow to start and I will update yall. it ran when I had it wired to the 8 pole, it just did not charge enough, and hopefully this will give enough charge. here is the pic of old stator for tvnacman. If you look at top left of stator, you can see the cut wire.

[epyon96r]

k so heres the update, the scooter is sending 15 volts to the battery without the headlight on @3k rpm. I did not do any other voltage tests because i was in a hurry, I figure it drops to a safer number once the 37watt headlight is turned on. It has been driven the past 5 days without any issues, so I am pleased, thanks everyone that helped.