starting By captainherb (Read 829 times)

[captainherb]

I have a 2007 Jonway with a 150 cc engine, and I need an explanation. It starts fine and all my switches work however if I leave my headlight switch on after shutting the bike down, when I go to start it, it turns over fine but will not start. As soon as I turn the headlights off it starts fine..Can anyone explain this?

[Bashan]

Well bud, I think that may be your killswitch. If one side of the switch has a circle and the other side a circle with an X through it, it's the kill switch. Most bikes don't have headlight switches anymore, they either come on when the stator starts spinning or when you turn on the ignition key. It's possible you do though, if you get a picture of the switch you can e-mail it to me if you want and I'll tell you either way. It's [e-mail]

[Alleyoop]

This is the Right Handle Bar switchs. Is the RED switch the one that you push to the LEFT and it will start? That switch is the KILLSWITCH on the JONWAY it is not your headlight switch.
Alleyoop

[captainherb]

::)The switch is definitely a headlight switch.. It is a three position switch for high and low beams and off and has an imprint on the switch of a headlight. It sits on the left side of the bike . I know my starter and kill switches which are on the right side. If I do not put the the headlight switch in the on position the bike starts fine, but I will not get a headlight until I switch it to the on position

[Alleyoop]

Ok, so then test this out, If you have a Spare Spark Plug take the boot off the plug on the motor and put the spare plug in the boot, put the headlights on and hold the plug on the motor or valve cover and crank it and see if the spark plug sparks.

The other thing is the headlights take a lot of juice and it may be that it cranks but to slow for it to start because the starter needs a lot of juice and with the headlights it takes to much juice and the cranking is very slow. Which means you need a bigger AMP battery with MORE CCA's to take the load.
Alleyoop

[davec]

Just for what it's worth, my 150cc Wildfire Helix clone has the 3 position light switch, as does my Icebear Zodiac

On my 1100 Shadow Sabre and GL1200, and most all other bikes, the light is wired to turn off when you hit the start switch

[tvnacman]

I'm with Alley .

John

[kz1000st]

The other thing is the headlights take a lot of juice and it may be that it cranks but to slow for it to start because the starter needs a lot of juice and with the headlights it takes to much juice and the cranking is very slow.

My 50cc bike has the same switch he's talking about and, yes, it has trouble starting with the headlight on. It will eventually but I figure why fight it and turn the switch to off.

My theory about the problem is that the starter sucks power, the headlight sucks power, and there's only a piece of an amp left to fire the ignition ineffectively. I have a motorcycle style kickstarter on the 50cc bike and even with the headlight on it fires on the first kick in a fraction of the time it takes to use the electric starter without the headlight on.

I just pretend it has Lucas ignition.

[Alleyoop]

Easy fix no brainer

Which means you need a bigger AMP battery with MORE CCA's to take the load.

Alleyoop

[captainherb]

Thanks for the input... I put a multi tester on my battery and found that sitting cold I have 12.7 volts, however when I try to start it with the headlight on my voltage drops to 8.1. My voltage drops to 10.9 without the headlight. I also found that when running I get a charging rate of 13.6 without the lights on !3.9 on low beams and 14.1 on high beams I did all these tests without reving the engine. Are the charging amounts within the norm

[tvnacman]

You need to see what it does when at 4 to 5000 RPM for 30 to 60 seconds . The idle numbers look great .

John

[davec]

Jan 5, 2014 17:42:36 GMT -6 captainherb said:

Thanks for the input... I put a multi tester on my battery and found that sitting cold I have 12.7 volts, however when I try to start it with the headlight on my voltage drops to 8.1. My voltage drops to 10.9 without the headlight. I also found that when running I get a charging rate of 13.6 without the lights on !3.9 on low beams and 14.1 on high beams I did all these tests without reving the engine. Are the charging amounts within the norm

On my bike, as the R/R got warmer, the voltage slowly dropped.
But, yours look good.
So WTFDIK

[Alleyoop]

It is not so much what the voltage it reads at, The Battery may not be able to take a load.

Let me ask this in a different way, with the lights on and you crank it DOES it spin the motor over fast or SLOOOOOOOOOOOOw(RRR) I would bet slow otherwise it would start.
Alleyoop

[Bashan]

Jan 4, 2014 19:33:32 GMT -6 captainherb said:

if I leave my headlight switch on after shutting the bike down, when I go to start it, it turns over fine but will not start. As soon as I turn the headlights off it starts fine..Can anyone explain this?

I can offer a scenario that would account for everything that's happening to your bike. Now whether this is what is happening to your bike, I don't know. I banged these diagrams out and used diagrams from another post and overwrote them. They are sloppy but they do the job. These are theoretical diagrams and I'm not saying this is how your bike is wired. The wire colors are generally arbitrary so don't follow them.

I think you may have a relay for the starter system in addition to your solenoid. I have one on my Fashion but it's not exactly like your setup. OK, you said that everything works fine while you're out impressing the ladies. Here is a diagram accounting for that. The relay has two circuits, the top one (br/r to g) energizes the relay and closes the bottom circuit (b/w to g) when 12v DC runs through the top circuit. When the bottom circuit closes the kill wire grounds and the engine stops. So even though the headlight switch is sending 12v downstream the circuit stops at the open start button. No 12v to the top so no closed killwire circuit. Everything is fine and two Bambis just waved at you.

You are so addled by the Bambis you head home for a brewski. In your haste you turn the ignition off but leave the headlight switch on. That black supply wire you see at the bottom goes dark with the key off so the headlight shuts off.

After 12 brewskis you feel you must go out and find the two Bambis. You know, just to make sure they are OK. In your haste (you really do need to relax) you don't check the headlight switch and leave it on. You hit the start button and the engine spins but it won't fire. That's because the start button has sent 12v to the relay and the relay closed the killwire circuit:

The dark green wire energizes the Y/R to the solenoid when the start button closes the circuit. So it spins the starter but with the killwire grounded there's no spark. Now you're REALLY worried about the Bambis. "Heeeey" your brewski energized frontal lobe remarks. "What about that headlight thingie?"

So you click off the headlight switch and boom, the mighty iron steed springs to life! With the headlight switch off there's no power to the relay when the start button is pushed and the killwire is not grounded. Your triumphant frontal lobe says "burp". You find the bambis and ask if the need any help. The tall one says, "you're cute, you remind me of my father." "Huh?" your frontal lobe remarks as you twist the go handle and go home.

Hey, I'm just joking around a little. I hope you weren't offended. Anyway, pull the Y/R off of the solenoid, turn on the key, turn on the headlight switch, and hit start. If you hear a click you have a second relay. If so, there's nothing wrong with your bike and I'd let it be.

[Alleyoop]

If so, there's nothing wrong with your bike and I'd let it be.

True, but that is if he has a second RELAY only ;D

Alleyoop