Timing Issue By mcgyvre (Read 1,185 times)

[mcgyvre]

I have spent the better part of the last 2 days reading through the forum looking for help on various problems. I have found many answers. I seem to be unable to locate my main problem's solution. It won't start! After a bunch of reading today, I am beginning to suspect woodruff key. I have confirmed TDC on compression stroke with feeler (screwdriver) in plug hole and all the holes visible and aligned correctly on cam sprocket. The problem is, the "T" mark is almost straight down, that is, it is about 80 degrees before the mark where it should be. My QMB-139 ran like a champ for a week, then starting running rough and 'missing' and sputtering and now won't start at all. After doing all I could think of, plus what you all suggested, (vac hose checks, fuel system, electrical connections, spark check, trust me when I say I did them, or at least assume I did for the moment) I was ready to try it. I sprayed a small amount of starting fluid into the air inlet box. I have the entire air inlet system except foam filter installed (fortunately!). Upon cranking, it immediately spit the fluid back out the inlet ON FIRE! From my old V-8 days, I knew this was a timing issue. As I said, the crank and cam seem to be correctly aligned to each other, but the magneto is about 80 degrees behind. The main reason I am asking you for confirmation is that I do not have a puller at my disposal so I will be forced to invest or improvise and don't want to if I am out in left field. I appreciate all you have already done for me. These motors are incredibly easy but, as I said, I am a V-8 man and am not familiar with all the ins and outs of these little beasts. Any insights or info would be great. I tried searching the forum, but am not sure what to search for. Tried ignition timing, timing issues, magneto position, everything I could think of. Finally stumbled on reference to the woodruff key. I am assuming that the woodruff keys the magneto to the crankshaft. I posted my howdy in the newbie/welcome thread this morning. My scoot is a Jonway 2008 with the side panel decal saying MB-050B-JCL. It is the identical model as the woman who you claimed was a mechanic that bought hers and parked it for a few months when it wouldn't start. But I digress. I love this world and am extremely glad I found your forum site!!!

Thanks,

Tony

[mcgyvre]

You have gotten to be so awesome, you don't even need to answer to get it right!! There was absolutely no woodruff key left in there!! I am shocked it ran for a week!!! Should have it up in an hour or so, and with all the other things I did first, she should run awesome!! Thank you all for all the help you didn't even know you gave me. I am excited beyond words and will share often as I learn more. Thanks again!!!
 

Tony

[Alleyoop]

FANTASTIC!! And great job Tony, knew it had to be either of two things for it being out of time by that much. One the Flywheel rotated due to a damaged woodruff key or the chain jumped on the cam sprocket due to the tension-er not putting pressure on it.
Alleyoop

[Bashan]

We at Scooter Doc consider spitting fire to fall under the category of "great big arse red flag."

[mcgyvre]

Many thanks to all the folks who have posted their knowledge and experience. I have owned this little beast for all of 10 days. I feel like I have been given a crash course thanks to you folks. Based on my lack of experience and the suggestions on various similar issues, I have been through every system on her in the last 3 days since she stopped running. Everything is here and you all have been great. As I shared with Alley, I am so glad to have found you all and appreciate your willingness to help and share. From my experience here, I feel like I have the ability to keep my scoot running, especially after this mess. At 6000 miles, I feared the worst when she broke down just a week after buying her. I figured the guy had used a motor medic to dump his wreck on me (the perpetual sucker!). After chasing down all the possibilities, I have the confidence to tackle anything with you guys and gals to back me up. My undying gratitude to you all!!

[mcgyvre]

Hello again, gang! Thought I would give an update on today's fun! I got her up and running last night around 2230. I left her naked, sitting in the garage as I crawled into bed with that awesome feeling of man triumphing over machine. This morning, I eagerly confronted the relatively simple task of remounting the plastic. As this plastic has seen better days, I took some care and attention to make sure everything was as good as it gets in terms of fit and finish. I figured, if she runs like a top, she deserves to look her best. Once completed, I proudly inserted the key into the ignition, turned it to on, moved the switch to run, pulled in the brake lever and hit the starter resulting in - NOTHING! After several minutes of searching, the positive cable had broken at the battery connector, UNDER the red protective sleeve! After a relatively quick repair, I finally took off around 1230 for a romp around town. At 1250, I was on the phone to a friend with a pick-up truck. I got 5 miles from home and she up and quit. My first thought was the customizing required to fit the new woodruff key had failed. Once back to the ranch, a quick inspection revealed this was not the case. I thought ahead when I reassembled and made a mark on the end of the crank to indicate where the woodruff groove was and the alignment was dead on still. A quick poke with jewelers screwdriver confirmed the key in place. To bring the story to an end, the issue was quite simple. I had replaced all the fuel lines and had forgotten to put a clamp on the outlet from the tank, so fuel flow was inconsistent, causing the engine to cut out. HURRAY! Once again, man triumphs over machine (and self). By now, it's after 1700, so I don my gear and off I go, confident in the finally finished project. As I ride around town, soaking in the sights and enjoying the fresh air (and bugs) in my face, the sun begins to fade so I begin to head in the direction of the old homestead. As the light fades in the sky, where I once saw the welcome glow of the speedo greet the arrival of evening, alas, this was not to be. Now, I have 10 miles of ride to make, sans running lights. I still had turn signals, brake lights, fuel and speed gages, horn, in short, everything but running/head lights and tail lights. Needless to say, I will be backing up my flash light batteries tomorrow, after another trip under the plastic! Don't get me wrong, I am enjoying every minute of this. I am also enjoying sharing it all with you. Thus far, this has been like a trip on the yellow brick road, and I hope I never get to Oz! Still haven't figured out if the front tire is supposed to be bumpy or not. Remember the phenomenon known as 'cupping' that occurs at the outer edges of a car tire when the balance is off? Well, it's like that, only dead center on the entire part of the tread that contacts the road. That one will remain a mystery for now until I chase down the lights. Tune in tomorrow for another episode of McGyvre in Scooterville. Ya know, I woke up this morning and when I went to put on my shirt, a button popped off of it. Then, I picked up my toolbag to get started and the handle broke. I decided to forego coffee as I was extremely frightened of what would happen if I needed to use the restroom.

[DrRocco]

Sounds like you're well on your way. At this point, you're looking for a loose ground or an electrical connector that jiggled loose. You'll be back in business in no time.

[Deleted]

good to hear you got it going. always good to fix something that somebody else thought was unfixable.

[Alleyoop]

There are only 10 kinds of people in the world,
those that understand binary and those that don't.

You must read a lot of DUMPS
Alleyoop

[Bashan]

Mar 13, 2014 21:52:45 GMT -6 Alleyoop said:

There are only 10 kinds of people in the world,
those that understand binary and those that don't.

Alleyoop

I am 61 and never heard that! Where in the hell are you coming up with these phrases? I know it's not Jack because it doesn't involve counting persimmon gametes or some crap, I don't know what the hell he's talking about. OK, try this one...her visage against the twilight of nascent lunar emergence smacked of future photonically induced reproductive events facilitated by ethanol induced euphoria. Hey...we've all been there.....Timmah!!!

[Alleyoop]

HAHAHAHA, well you have to admit that crazy farmer did open up a persimmon or some fruity thingy and counted the seeds and by doing so he prediction a BAD winter and told everyone to get their shovels out. I think he messes around in his shed with VOODO dolls
Alleyoop

[Bashan]

Um. I know he messes around in his shed with dolls,...the inflatable kind..although they are constantly exploding....I have been there and it is horrid!! The humanity!!....Timmah

[tvnacman]

You will have to reset all the dominos , then you can ride problem free .

John

[mcgyvre]

Okay guys. Before I go tearing apart my awesome mods to my flywheel/woodruff key, I must ask a question. I know it may seem I have a clue, from time to time, I do screw up from my lack of experience. The improvised puller I fashioned to originally yank the flywheel was no match for my mods and would not pull the flywheel after repairs. It was at this point, I remembered my alignment marks that confirmed pulling was not necessary. Before this enlightenment, I did attempt to thread longer bolts into the flywheel in an attempt to remove it. I literally had a dream that revealed I may have inadvertently damaged the AC supply to the headlight circuit. I scoured the electrical help section up and down and all I could find were comprehensive electrical diagrams covering the entire electrical system. As I had not had previous issues in this area, I had no cause to determine if I had AC or DC power to the headlight circuit. My recollection is that the headlight did not come on until after the scoot was running, not when the key was turned to on. If I did indeed damage this supply to the headlights, can I supply power to the circuit without pulling the flywheel for proper repairs? The only items affected are the headlights, tail lights and the dash light. All other items are functioning. I listed them above, but working items are fuel gage, speedo, turn signals, brake lights, ignition (obviously), and horn. Only not working are headlight, running lights, tail light and dash light. Way too many wires running through the comprehensive diagrams to follow just these items. The main reason for not pulling is that I would need to buy a puller and I also had a b*tch of a time getting the flywheel on and would rather not go through that again. Alley informed me that I have an overbored (63cc) 1P39QMB, which explains why she runs easily at 40 and has no trouble hitting 45. Despite my earlier bashing of the prior owners, it seems they did take care of the engine. The fluids were all relatively clean, the plug looked good and now that I have gone through everything and made some adjustments, she purrs like a kitten, runs like a cheetah and has captured my heart. I had an old 1974 Honda Seven Fifty Four at one time, but as much as I like the open air, I never was comfortable on it due to the shear size. It is as if I was born to scoot! Anyway, again I digress! LOL! Any input or suggestions on repowering the affected circuit would be greatly appreciated. Am I wrong in thinking I can simply tap into an existing circuit and supply power from there? Does it matter if the new supply is AC or DC based on what it is supposed to have? If it requires AC, where is a good alternative supply to tap into? If AC/DC doesn't matter, should I run a wire straight from the nearest DC source downstream of the key switch or kill switch? So many questions, so few brain cells left to process the answers.A skeleton walks into a bar and yells to the bartender, "Hey barkeep! Gimme a beer, and a mop!"

[mcgyvre]

You must read a lot of DUMPS

Alleyoop





Read 'em? No. Take 'em? Yup.