Ice Bear Q6 trike By km (Read 8,342 times)

[km]

I have had this trike for about 3 months.  In that time, I changed the CDI, coil, and spark plug to performance options.  I checked for any restrictions with variator, carburetor needle, and any others I read about.  None of those seem to apply.  The needle to control fuel flow has only one notch , the variator had no washer, and besides possible exhaust restriction, the trike should be unrestricted.

My objective is to get the scooter to at least 35, so I don't annoy other drivers and to avoid being killed.  I have had it up to almost 40 and 7400 RPM downhill with a wind.  At first it had no torque, but as the motor was breaking in, the torque improved.  I changed the CDI because I noticed the RPM would max out around 6200, FYI.

The air box has been replaced with a cone filter, and I used the existing breather and intake pipes to create a intake pipe that still has the crankcase ventilation tube attached to the intake.  With all of these changes, I seemed to have lost some torque and speed.  I adjusted the air/fuel screw after uncovering it, and the torque is mostly back.  I expect it to improve as the motor continues to break in, as it is currently at 160 km.  What I have noticed is the RPM drops at close to full throttle, like the new main jet (.85) is too small.  I did not change the other jet, which I believe is .29.

The most annoying thing I have found is there is NO documentation on the Q6 except for a generic manual that resembles this trike very little.  I found information about ratios, etc. at icebear site and extremescooters.biz which don't completely agree with each other, but otherwise this trike seems to be the great unknown.  Any information and answers to the speed/torque limitations would be appreciated. 

Ken

[davec]

Nothing personal but I probably woulda done broke it in first before making all those performance changes, so's I could compare stock broke in vs after market performance enhancements.

But, I didn't wanna go thru all that and just got the 300cc instead

Yes, there is little to none repair manuals for these scoots

With the increased air flow, not sure if the jetting is correct, but Alley will

But, WTH do I know

[richardv]

There's no replacement for displacement.

[Alleyoop]

Yes, the manuals are actually for the two wheel version they made the trike out of. But you will not find anything about the rear axle at all. They basically took a two wheel scoot took the rear tire swing arm off and built the trike swingarm with motor mounts and welded two pieces to hook up the swingarm to the main frame(WHOLA).

Now the best bang for your buck without going into the motor is TALLER tires, It has 10" rims and you can get 205/65-10 KENDA LOAD tires like I got and you will see some top end.

Now to find out what the motor needs when it starts to drop RPMS do this:

When it starts to drop RPMS BACK OFF THE THROTTLE about 1/4 of an INCH and HOLD it there.
Now pay attention to what it does:
1. If it speeds up, it is LEAN.
2. If it just settles down it is RICH.
Alleyoop

lleyoop

[km]

That is what I would do as well, but you have not seen the crazy drivers down here.  
I would like to live long enough to get through the break in period.

Ken

[km]

That is what is weird.  I read your document about how to set the air/fuel and have it set as close to optimum as I could at this point in the break in period.  What happens is from a stop it builds RPM to about 6000 to 6200, and then if I increase the throttle a bit further the RPM goes down.  If I then back it off it goes up a bit, but never regains the RPM it has before the increase in throttle until brought back down to idle first (stop sign).  If I hit the sweet spot with the throttle, it increases in RPM to around 6000 to 6200, and the trike will accelerate up to about 30 to 32 MPH on the stock speedometer (I have not compared it to reality, yet).  From the above I was assuming the air is too much for the .85 main jet, which I used to replace the JR08 that was stock.  I have my idle speed currently set at 1740 RPM (aftermarket tachometer using wire wrapped around spark plug wire to
obtain information).

I have not been able to find any documentation that matches this trike, or an equivalent scooter it may be based on.

Ken

[Alleyoop]

I would step down on the MAIN JET a #85 is to much fuel for a stock 50cc motor. Try a #75 a #85 usually works well with a 72cc BBK. Rule of thumb is add a Free Flow filter up the main jet by 2 add a free flow exhaust up the main jet by another 2(total of 4-5 larger main jet from stock with both free flow air filter and free flow exhaust). Also from the way you explained the rpms your variator weights are to heavy letting the belt climb up to fast lowering your rpms.
Alleyoop

[km]

If the JR08 is a #80 as assumed, the trike was starved for fuel using that jet, which is why I changed to a #85.  It seems that if the jet was too big it would bog down with the excessive fuel.  I also ran it for about 40 km yesterday at various speeds from 25 up to 35 plus after changing the spark
plug to an iridium, and the plug electrode is brown, which should indicate the air/fuel mixture is good across the spectrum.  The needle has only a single notch, so is not adjustable except with washers and longer screw to hold it in.  Perhaps the jet is compensating for that?

As for the weights, the trike takes some time to get up to speed, so it is likely the variator is getting to the top too soon, as you suggest.
There is no information on the weights without taking the variator apart, unfortunately.  

[Alleyoop]

What is the motor that is in there, look on the side case and tell us what motor it has in it.
Alleyoop

[km]

1P39QMB (130734061)

[ole crawdad]

Apr 10, 2014 10:14:52 GMT -6 km said:

1P39QMB (130734061)

Hi KM I sent you a PM on 4/18 regarding your Q6 . As I also have a Q6 and have some of your minor problems
The one that I would like to change at this time is that my Trike seems a little seems a little slow when I take off and the conclusion is that the rollers are not right . MY question to you is have you taken off your variator and if so could you tell me the roller number ie - 16-13 possibly and also the number in grams of the weight of the rollers I haven't taken off my variator as yet as I don't have a Impact wrench as yet and it would save me some extra exertion if you had the roller type and gram size.
Outside of this speed problem I have found this Trike to be a great machine . So far I have only about 50 miles on it but enough riding to be pleased with it's operation .I did have to put on a after market carburetor so I could adjust the air/gas ratio and installed a tachometer ,that's is all I have done so far .
I sure would appreciate any information you could give me . Thanks Crawdad

[km]

I already replied to your PM.

I am waiting for a tool that immobilizes the variator for loosening and tightening.
Once that finally arrives, I will be taking a look. The specifications say the best
torque is at 6800 RPM, but that cannot be achieved with the stock weights. In fact,
I found the RPM to max at 6080 with changes I have made so far, but that drops through
the gearing to in the 4000 to 5000 range. I have had it as high as 7200 down hill, so
the engine just needs the variator to allow it to spin more easily to get to maximum torque.

[km]

The variator immobilizer tool finally arrived and worked like a charm.  I removed the rollers and checked their mass.

Each of the rollers is 6 grams, based on my measurements.  If 5.5g is considered by many to be ideal, perhaps it
is the contra spring or the clutch springs that are preventing the peek RPM from being achieved.  I need to remove the
clutch to see if the spring(s) needs to be upgraded.  I think the clutch springs are fine, based on when the trike begins to 
roll forward.  The fact that acceleration and power on hills is not optimal, I am thinking contra spring, or the main jet is still 
not big enough.  Does anyone think 6 gram rollers can be improved upon?

Ken

[km]

Here is a follow up...

I now have a Dr Pulley variator, After market clutch set/bell with 1500 RPM torque spring and adjustable clutch springs.
I currently have three 6 gram rollers, expecting Dr. Pulley sliders (4 gm).  Added performance air filter and performance
exhaust.  I also have a #45 idle and #95 main jet.  With this set up I have had it up to 40+ and 92-9600 RPM.  The
additional grams for the sliders should bring it down to optimum torque RPM.  I had to add a pipe to compensate for the
differences with the trike for the performance exhaust.  Parts for Scooters was able to get all of these components to
me very quickly.

Results so far with engine still during break in period...  I have even had my wife on the trike with me, with minimal loss
of performance.  This little powerhouse gets looks as it travels along the roads of Destin.  

Still need to set the idle and mixture to optimum, but very pleased with results so far.


Ken

 

[Alleyoop]

WOW!! 45 Pilot Jet and 95 Main Jet did you put on a BBK? Also Running at those high rpms your motor will not last, that is 2 stroke territory not good for a 4 stroke.
Alleyoop