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Post by czmdiver on Nov 6, 2015 22:46:40 GMT -6
Bro, C'mon, Loose the Stock Exh. You've Gone Way up in Displacement, You're dumping into a Straw.   Thats A tube inside a tube thats Smaller than your Exhaust Port. Flange Welded Off Center. Bunches of Free Flow for under a Benjamin. Theres Two Stainless Head Pipes Larger than the Exh. Port. And a Free Flow Fart Can   What Ya have for a Cylinder Head? Thes BB Stroker packages need to have the Correct Combination of Components to Work Properly/Ideal. Stock Head, Stock Exhaust, Stock Cam, Stock Carb, aint gunna cut it. |
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Post by czmdiver on Nov 4, 2015 11:40:42 GMT -6
scooters are not built to compete with motorcycles. any machine can be made "better" if your wallet is big enough. dependability and longevity rests on maintenance. the biggest problem with Chinese scooters is that they can't be built in America for 60 cents a day.  |
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Post by czmdiver on Nov 4, 2015 5:17:31 GMT -6
Im not trying to turn this into a pissing contest just a fun side project. All hounesty I could proably get some scrap pipng and weld me up a frame and make a better bike then most chinnesse scooters but why not try and do something differnt for a change. Oh no Bro I may come on a little strong but no issing match, I enjoyed what you had to say |
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Post by czmdiver on Nov 3, 2015 20:23:40 GMT -6
i just dont see why it's such a big deal to make a true advancing curve cdi,,,cars and motorcycles have had them for decades,,,and worldwide sales of scooters is huge,,,(epic porportion huge) so i would think they'd be everywhere,,,,it's not like there's no volume to support the developement Well, I kinda had a discussion with another moto mechanic about that subject on why didnt they make more products for the scooters like they do for the motorcycles, the old school mechanic stated that because they never had a reason to, scooters werent meant to go fast so why would they invest time and money into a aftermarket part or improving the scooters when there so cheap to replace brand new......... Key pharse being "Scooters were not meant to go fast" and from that point I argued with him till he walked off, with the right mods a scooter could be decent.... dont get me wrong it will never come close to my 2008 yamaha r6 but a scooter makes a fun side project to try and make fast, and with his comments sturing around in my head I went home and took my 2007 alien Longbo 150cc 1p57qmj scooter "Roketta Style" and stripped it down and give it a complete make over to try and prove him wrong, the scooter will be 100% custom but will be nice and wont be worth half ill put into it but, I WILL PROVE HIM WRONG, Ima post up pics of a before and after, along with progress pics, im going around to diffent sites getting opinions and advice now, so if you have any good ideas or opinions on the matter please post I would like to hear the docs info on a custom nice/comfortable/daily drivable/fast scooter. Leme provide a USA MFG'r perspective. I don't care what it is lets Hot Rod it! Problem, This market is buying a Chinese scooter for under $1,000. I can mfg a rotating package that will blow your mind. This market was instantly whored out by Cheap Fake Junk. Who's going to pay for Top Quality USA product that actually Stand behind there product (warranty) and Included's Technical support and Installation Instructions? Nada, Know-body just doing the market research I lost money. Its bed creating by I can't sell a dmn thing unless its on Sale or Heavily Discounted. Well we get what we get, Junk Fake Product. You Want all Custom product? You ready to Pony Up? |
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Post by czmdiver on Oct 26, 2015 13:27:18 GMT -6
Something else to consider.  For the No Case Bore NCY Iron Lined Cylinder on Right has a Bare Minimum Flange Thickness of .039 or 1mm make it a lille sketchy for me. The Case Bore Plated Taida Cylinder has a Much Thicker Flange. My Choice. |
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Post by czmdiver on Oct 26, 2015 12:18:34 GMT -6
I hope the OP has checked his current motor casing and checked if when bored out to take the 63mm there will be enough meat around the stud holes and the chain wall. Here is a 63mm that left paper thin walls and it did not last even a ride it blew up after starting it and adjusting it. Notice the missing pieces around the studs and chain wall. Alleyoop  Wow total butcher job, How can anybody overlook that? And the Sloppy Permatex  |
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Post by czmdiver on Oct 25, 2015 19:53:12 GMT -6
www.polydyn.com/performance_coatings.htmThese folks got it going on. Ive used them for Piston Domes, Skirt Coates and Header Coatings. You won't be putting Ceramic on the Skirts. They use the Ceramic to Reinforce there Dry Film on the Skirt coat.
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Post by czmdiver on Oct 25, 2015 19:29:24 GMT -6
Thanks diver. I'm leaning toward the original stroker kit because I love displacement  I was thinking about ceramic coating the piston as well. Never tried it but have heard good things about it and should help reduce friction from the aggressive rod angle. I will probably start a new build thread and I can also document any differences between the p engines and non p engines. You mean a Ceramic Thermal Barrier Applied to the Dome correct? |
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Post by czmdiver on Oct 25, 2015 18:17:44 GMT -6
Of what we have available to us from MFG's I think the Taida Line is the best of what's out there. Pick the correct Piston , Even with the lil Pop up Dome is Lighter. the Dome Rise I think is .110 The Scales don't lie, The Lighter Piston assy will be a little easier on the Crank.    A Taida Plated Cylinder on the right, Iron Bore NCY on Left. The Plated Bore has many benefits over Iron, Iron  Barbaric 
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Post by czmdiver on Oct 25, 2015 18:16:41 GMT -6
Of what we have available to us from MFG's I think the Taida Line is the best of what's out there. Pick the correct Piston , Even with the lil Pop up Dome is Lighter. the Dome Rise I think is .110 The Scales don't lie A Taida Plated Cylinder on the right, Iron Bore NCY on Left. The Plated Bore has many benefits over Iron, Iron Barbaric |
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Post by czmdiver on Oct 25, 2015 17:50:10 GMT -6
This is great info!  So for a more reliable street engine, it would be better to get a Taiwanese made stock-stroke crank, and a 63mm bore? Or will the stock crank hold up ok with the 63mm? There is a Displacement argument that can be made, and its a valid one. I'm happy to provide the information so you know what you in for. Your going to have to make your call. Stock crank should hold up as well as a stroker. |
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Post by czmdiver on Oct 25, 2015 14:54:01 GMT -6
To achieve zero deck you must be running special pistons with raised pin location and shave the crown too or you can get it with the piston? This is mostly correct. and I should have pointed this out, Borg's on the gas. I can make the Custom Piston with the Correct Pin Height and that Will make my Piston Timing edge correct at Zero Deck. Then there will be no machining of the top of the piston. Given the Cylinder is the Correct Blue Print Height, seldom are, then you alter the zero deck with different Base Gasket Thicknesses. The Slipper style skirt will need little to know attention. |
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Post by czmdiver on Oct 25, 2015 11:43:31 GMT -6
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Post by czmdiver on Oct 25, 2015 11:42:27 GMT -6
i would only cut the piston as a very last resort,,,and minimally at that,,,i would think at +6 a cylinder base spacer is in order,,,and as our resident engine guru points out,,,with the severe rod angularity you need all the skirt you can get,,,oh it will start and run but longevity will be an issue big time,,,we used to call those "grenade builds",,,i've changed my mind over the years as far as strokers go,,,i now prefer as big of an oversquare as can be done within the crankcase design limits and spin it faster,,,keeping rod angularity down ,,these style builds last longer and make the kind of power i'm after This is all correct. I'll point out the fix. I've hesitated to give this up cuz its a money maker for someone on the pipe. Because of the Unfavorable Rod Angle/ Rod-Stroke Ratio. I do these Stokers with +Longer Rods. This Not only Straightens out the Harsh Angle that So Hard on Piston Skirts and Ring Seal, the Piston will Dwell Longer at TDC and BDC. Piston Dwell Time. I may get more complete burn. I build these with a +2.500 Stroke and a +.250 or +.375 Longer Rod. Pretty Unassuming Mouse Motor. Long Rod 385i Stroker will rock your world. yayaya, the Vacuum Advance was removed and is mechanical.  This again Straightens out the Harsh Angle, Longer Piston Dwell time, And my Pin Height went from 1.550 (oe) to 1.250 Thats a .250 Shorter Piston and saved Bunch of Weight. Long Rod, Short Stroke Ripper and all I need is a Ring Holder for a Piston.  |
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Post by czmdiver on Oct 25, 2015 10:11:10 GMT -6
Thank Diver great info!! I would imagine on that original kit that being such an extreme stroke with no spacer that the bottom of the piston is probably flat. Check out what I found though. www.ebay.com/itm/321885825517?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649It says "stroker ready piston", but I'm not too sure. So we agree that running even a thick cylinder spacer is better than messing with the piston right? Also if you got a piston like on your last picture, would you drill those oiling holes out or just leave them? Doesn't the piston move side to side where the wrist pin goes through the rod, so it's steel to steel, and not steel to aluminum? That could open up a potential wear point no? Lee explain, The Longer Stroke will take the Piston Out of the Top of the Bore. The First Kit Has a Taller than OE Cylinder to Replace the Spacer and have a Correct Zero-Deck. Now the Piston Mod or just making a Correct Piston is on the Bottom of the Piston and has Nothing to do with Spacers or Cylinder height, As the Piston goes to BDC the Skirt's or Pin Boss Will Hit the Crank. Here is a +2.5mm Stroker with the correct Piston I showed you, See at BDC how Close this Piston is to Hitting the Crank. And Yes the Pin oilers go in this and All my Pistons,, I see these with No pin oilers and the Wrist Pins All come out Fourteen Different Colors of the Rainbow. No, the Piston doesn't move side to side only on its Thrust Faces, Don't need any sides on these Pistons  |
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I was thinking about ceramic coating the piston as well. Never tried it but have heard good things about it and should help reduce friction from the aggressive rod angle. I will probably start a new build thread and I can also document any differences between the p engines and non p engines. 
Barbaric
So for a more reliable street engine, it would be better to get a Taiwanese made stock-stroke crank, and a 63mm bore? Or will the stock crank hold up ok with the 63mm?