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Post by grima on Jul 16, 2011 20:35:03 GMT -6
Okay, folks, this is really starting to piss me off. The charging system is definitely haywire on this thing, but I'm not certain how to go about fixing this. I put in the new stator and the outputs have now returned to the failed status that they were before. The charging system doesn't go about 12.2 V, no matter the rpms. The regulator doesn't get hot, but the voltage entering it isn't high either. Could I have gotten a bad stator from Ice Bear?
In addition, the regulator they sent me is not correct. From what I can tell, the regulator I have is for 150cc motors. Could this cause my issues?
Can an uneven idle cause stator output to be low? Both AC outputs from the stator go directly to my regulator. How can a battery dying cause the uneven idle when ignition power comes directly from the stator? My research indicates this could only be the problem if it is a DC ignition system, which it doesn't appear to be. Is there a way to find out if it is? If you pull the battery out of a DC ignition system, wouldn't the bike not start?
The vendor is definitely starting to get tired of me, too. When I sent a message to them regarding the incorrect regulator, I just got a message from the manager saying "I need to look into what happened with this claim and I will get back to you as soon as I can." That was a week ago.
My research into this R/R indicates that it's for 150cc bikes. Could Ice Bear have thrown the electrical system together incorrectly?
Ultimately, I need accurate readings from a properly working 50cc Ice Bear to find out if the stator has failed or what. All I can find is for 150cc and up.
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Post by grima on Jul 10, 2011 20:59:49 GMT -6
I've seen this on cars. Usually indicates a weak connector to the light. I'd check voltage output at the bulbs, then work backwards to the stator coil (doubt you'll get that far, but work it slow.)
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Post by grima on Jul 10, 2011 15:24:27 GMT -6
To me, it sounds like your speed issue is coming from the CVT. I'd check your contra spring and rollers. Flat spots on the rollers will definitely cause that slow down. And if your contra spring is weak from heat, it'll definitely limit your speed. But then, the new engine comes with a new trans, so...
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Post by grima on Jul 10, 2011 14:52:44 GMT -6
You are correct, there is only one fuse. I don't know if yours is like my trike, but I found that the headlights work off of the switch on the right hand controls. Looks like a hazard light switch (uses the triangle symbol) but controls the light. I disassembled my whole bike trying to find that issue.
Far as the fuel gauge, I'd suggest looking at the wires first. A lot of these bikes use cheap connectors that come undone easily. If you have a voltage tester, check for voltage to the sender. Depending on make, it could be 12v or 5v.
As far as the electrical diagram, there is a general one in the tech section of this site that hasn't steered me wrong yet on my GY50 motors.
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Post by grima on Jun 24, 2011 15:09:56 GMT -6
Thanks for the info! I'm glad someone's looking out for my buck (besides me!)
Few questions, though... where could I get the new gears, do they need to be pressed/pulled and can a 50cc engine really handle the additional torque with the new ratio? I would think that new clutch springs would be required, at least. (To allow the engine to rev higher before loading it up). Does this conversion mean that acceleration would suffer? (Unless I could overcome that with new rollers). Anyone try this before?
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Post by grima on Jun 23, 2011 18:42:02 GMT -6
Okay, still working the uneven idle issue (getting into a pissing contest with Ice Bear about it, too) but I'm thinking a little further ahead. Specifically, I know my wife isn't going to be happy with 35mph. So, looking at upgrades. I love Scrappy Dog's prices and their stage 4 kit looks great, but I'm wondering about the results. Can anyone tell me what I could be looking at after installing it? Or has anyone done any of these upgrades before?
And before you say it, yes, I realize that exhaust will probably hit the rear shock. I think I can work a fix for it, though.
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Post by grima on Jun 18, 2011 23:09:22 GMT -6
The voltages on the new stator are well within range, considering the uneven idle. I did try reading the resistances across the regulator, as per the manual on this site, but my regulator is a 5 wire and the only stats I can find are for four wire. They do seem very irregular, though. There isn't a capacitor in there, is there?
Needless to say, I haven't replaced the regulator, but it was my understanding that the regulator shouldn't affect the firing. The fact that the batteries keep dying, though, tells me that they must be doing something for it. Depending on Killer Motor Sports' response at this point, I may be replacing that next.
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Post by grima on Jun 18, 2011 17:53:59 GMT -6
Okay, I've finally lost my temper. I installed the new stator and rotor (30 dollars down the drain) and the fricking thing is still doing it. Uneven idle (I've sprayed the piss out of it, no vacuum leak). I've checked the tank, running it without the cap on, even. I've checked the resistances across the cdi, pickup coil and excitor coil. All good. Changed the oil twice. Changed gasoline twice. Vacuum petcock is flowing fine. Fuel bowl is filling fine. After I replaced the stator and rotor, it looked like it was fine until the battery went dead again. Voltage out of the rectifier is only 12.4V at 6k rpm. At what it's calling idle, voltage output is only 12.2V. Is this right? It's my understanding that the stator and rotor should run this thing even without a battery, but it isn't.
I'm getting to the point where I'm ready to trash this piece of crap. Ice Bear may not be at fault, since Killer Motor Sports claims to have done a PDI on the motor themselves, but it's definitely getting out of hand.
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Post by grima on Jun 11, 2011 11:26:49 GMT -6
Update for anyone who runs into this problem.
The 4 screw holes did not work for me. They merely demolished the stator (which was bad anyway, thank goodness) and then stripped the holes on the flywheel. I was finally able to remove the flywheel using a 3 jaw puller, which DEFINITELY bent the flywheel. So, if you run into this problem in the future, a 3 inch 3 jaw puller will do the job of getting it off. Just count on getting a new flywheel.
Incidentally, when it did finally come off, it came of explosively. Nearly broke my fingers. And I had to remove my exhaust to get clearance for the puller. Not what I consider a fun job. My wife is seriously put out with Ice Bear because of this. I've rather enjoyed honing my diagnostic skills, but a crossed wire on a brand new bike is more than a little irritating.
Thanks to all for the help. Keep safe!
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Post by grima on Jun 8, 2011 17:42:29 GMT -6
Okay, this is getting irritating. Anyone have an alternative way to remove the stator? I used the tool from scrappy dog and turned it all the way in, turned the actuator half a turn and the tool popped right out, taking every last thread with it. Is there a thread chaser available? How about using the 4 screw holes on the outside edge of the rotor to push it off? Can I used a three jaw puller to pull it off? ANY suggestions appreciated. Going to search for a thread chaser now.
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Post by grima on Jun 2, 2011 19:50:23 GMT -6
Waiting on a new stator and stator tool, but decided to investigate the rest of the engine for problems. Found a capped intake vacuum line and was wondering what it was for. Is it for a deceleration pump on a different carb? Or is it supposed to attach to the outlet on the EVAP canister (at least, that's what I suppose it is since when vacuum was applied, I got a lung full of gasoline vapors.) They are different sized connectors, so I assume not, but I just gotta know.  |
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Post by grima on May 31, 2011 17:36:55 GMT -6
Okay, how is this thing even RUNNING?! Thanks to Sprocket, I was able to find a wire that was out of place. Specifically, the yellow wire from the stator was connected directly to ground. After correcting that, the idle was still erratic so I checked for voltages on all four wires. CDI wire was only about 15V. White wire was only 1.2V. Yellow wire was .8V. Blue/black was pulsing, of course, but only about 1V. All measurements done in AC. Now I'm guessing that the stator is shot because someone connected the yellow wire (lighting system) directly to ground. Can't imagine how I'm going to get the stator off.
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Post by grima on May 30, 2011 18:26:04 GMT -6
Think I've got it!
Replaced spark plug, was trying to arrange a photo for warranty replacement and decided to check the charging system. Found only battery voltage at all points with engine running. Disconnected the stator connection to the rectifier and the engine evened out instantly!
Stator is putting out 22V to the rectifier but nothing is getting to the battery. As the battery wore down, the uneven idle came back. So... stator or rectifier, I'm betting rectifier and changing my warranty request to that. Also going to see about getting a new battery since this one is FUBAR from all the testing I've done. Hope it will be under warranty.
Interesting factoid, though. The rectifier on my bike is a 5 pin type that my research indicates is for the 125-150cc bikes, while the 4 pin is standard for the 50. Got me to wondering if I reversed polarity on this thing, though. The two wires I disconnected went to a three pin connector. The white wire was connected to the rectifier. The yellow wire was connected to a green wire which was connected to ground (negative). The third unused wire was connected to the rectifier as well, but it didn't have a connection from the stator. I did notice that the rectifier is grounded not only to the frame but directly to negative as well. Not sure if this should be wired this way. From what I can tell, the 5th wire (black) from the rectifier isn't used. Not sure if wiring here is wrong or if I'm just not familiar enough to tell if it's right.
And before you ask, yes I tried connecting the yellow wire to the yellow connector on the rectifier and just got the same erratic idle.
Make sense to anyone else? I'm guessing the low voltage was causing a weak spark sometimes, which caused an erratic idle.
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Post by grima on May 30, 2011 9:47:25 GMT -6
Indeed, I have tried using the a/f screw to enrich the mixtures. I have tried moving it out almost 3 turns, 1/8 turn at a time. Eventually, the unit just stalls, being too rich. All that happens is that the idle will go up slightly, in relation to the rises and falls, but it never evens out or even lessens the drops.
Spoke with one of the techs from the shop and he suggested replacing the electric choke. Going to send me new part under warranty.
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Post by grima on May 30, 2011 0:11:04 GMT -6
Recently purchased an Ice Bear ZH50 which has had an erratic idle since I started it.
I put in new oil in both the motor and the rear end before I started, filled it with premium gasoline and checked all the wiring. Everything seemed fine. Started it up, ran for 5 seconds, then idle dropped and the unit stalled. By moving the idle up, I was able to keep it running, but the it still drops about 1000 rpm every 3-5 seconds. This is usually a sign of a vacuum leak, so I replaced all the lines and sprayed then entire motor with water to find a leak. No luck. I then took apart the air filter to the carb looking for a blockage. No luck. I took apart the carb, without removing the diaphragm for the needle or the acceleration pump. All passages and jets were clear. I checked the vacuum petcock, which is working fine. I checked the exhaust for leaks. No luck. I did a valve adjust, per the 139QMB manual (the engine which is in the unit). No luck. I suspected a lean condition, so I pulled the plug to see and found that the spark plug was black and dry, with a white condition only at the electrode.
I'm out of ideas at this point. I suspect an electrical problem, especially because my battery has died twice from all the idling I've done trying to diagnose this problem. I can get the engine started with the kick starter, but the idle will drop dramatically and kill the engine with the erratic idle. This is especially true when coming to a stop while driving. The trike has only 25 miles on it from diagnostic testing at less than 1/4 throttle.
Any help would be appreciated.
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