Clinician
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Post by jaksonbrown on Aug 10, 2012 19:42:09 GMT -6
I don't think Wallace Racing knows about multi valves considering their mast head shows an antique American push rod machine, but using their calculator AND my infallible TI-85 for conversion I get 20.79 for the street and 34.65 hp racing. Add overhead cam and four valves and 22.45 hp is more than possible. Motocycles covert all of the HP to the wheel with a chain and different speed transmissions while any scooter looses lots of HP with a CVT and belt.Uhh, not quite. If you ever saw the inside of a bike you'd know that power is transmitted through a clutch, intermediate and output shaft. Not to mention all the bearings and those nasty pins and rollers of a chain. It's why all the bike magazines take readings at the rear wheel now since all bike engines lose ponies between the crank and rear wheel. You're only proving my point. Let's say that again-440 pounds-Why that's even more than Reflex Replica with a two valve Linhai 257. Despite that what did Dave say? The JetMax started easily hot or cold. The throttle is responsive and the engine is MUCH freer revving than the 250cc powerplant in CFMoto's Fashion scooter. Acceleration is brisk and smooth. Gotta love fuel injection. "Acceleration is brisk and smooth" Hardly the symptoms of either a VOG with a 257cc or a 440 pound Linhai powered scooter. Plus there has never been any question that any of the Linhai powered scooters, even an Aeolus, are built to the higher standards of a CF Moto. Plus saying Dave is a tool of any manufacturer is patently untrue. Oh yes, I should mention that I feel free to openly state my concerns because, aside from building the scooter, Piaggio had nothing to do with this review. Like Honda, Yamaha and Suzuki, Piaggio has made it clear to me that they DON'T put "review" scooters in the hands of people who run websites like JustGottaScoot.com. We are not considered a "legitimate" media source because we don't accept advertising. That's right, we won't take their advertising money, so we get no scooters to review.Read the rest of the test. www.justgottascoot.com/bv350.htmHe could be riding a BV 350 if he played ball, which he doesn't. Uhh, not quite. If you ever saw the inside of a bike you'd know that power is transmitted through a clutch, intermediate and output shaft. Not to mention all the bearings and those nasty pins and rollers of a chain. It's why all the bike magazines take readings at the rear wheel now since all bike engines lose ponies between the crank and rear wheel. Anyone who has ever rode a two wheel machine of any kind knows this? Good grief but clutch and bearings all on a scooter too plus a rubber belt that slips and a variator. They all lose ponies from the engine to the back wheel but a scooter is a lot more. Also as you know since you ride a 250 Yamaha and your wife has a Rebel you can command the ponies a lot better with 5 to 6 gears, hold RPM's up going up a hill and the clutch on a motorcycle once engaged is solid and not moved unless you do it, not so with the clutch on a CVT scooter. Even a wore out chain transmits power directly to the wheel better than a brand new scooter belt. Comparing a motorcycle to a scooter is absurd with any formula even your never heard of magic formula to make HP come out like you want. Take either one of your 250 motorcycles and take off on a trip of any kind and stacked next to any 250 scooter and you'll be sitting at the cafe drinking coffee when the scooter drives up. Dave which you think so highly of on his opinion didn't even compare apples to oranges. Also you seem to ignore the fact of his final conclusion of the scooter just didn't stack up to the "other" scooters in comparison, it's outside body indicated typical cheap Chinese work and quality plus the same old Chinese 10 MPH off speedometer. So Moto finally builds it's first non-clone scooter holds a high $3k plus price tag with a to say the least under $2k quality and it's going to be a winner? Time will tell but If I'm betting you'll see them like the typical cheap Chinese scooter on Craigslist before long and affordable then. Do a good PDI on it and you'll probably have a decent scooter. Seem,s CfMoto never learns, build a high priced cheaply built scooter call it better and then let them sit on the show room floor and gather dust while the other cheap scooters are going down the road. Today's economy doesn't support the sale of cheap stuff for high dollars and now that they've pulled their long time proven scooter line up they're really pushing the going out of business button.
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Clinician
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Post by jaksonbrown on Aug 10, 2012 15:34:29 GMT -6
OK so now instead of relying on a review by Dave who couldn't take the time to really look those specs up you now have the specs from the most reliable source CfMoto who of course wouldn't dare stretch anything for a sales pitch. Since you want to talk about speed which I never said anything about and now have the facts of the weight, torque along with bore and displacement then use their own numbers to see how well it's figured. EFI and a couple of valves are offset by scooter and rider weight of an average of 650lbs and don't even figure in wind drag or such. Any good man with a carb can accomplish the same amount of fuel as EFI doesn't add squat to HP in fact a good carb man can make more power with a carb. Extra valves help to a point but the engine will only take on so much fuel, got to match the air with it. But we aren't talking about racing, this is a stock engine. Also this is a scooter review to even consider using a chain driven motorcycle as a comparision is way off base. Motocycles covert all of the HP to the wheel with a chain and different speed transmissions while any scooter looses lots of HP with a CVT and belt. I didn't even see Dave try that, again he stated his ONLY comparision was another CFMoto. Comparing a scooter to a motorcycle in any way would be like comparing a school bus to a Corvett especailly if they were the same displacement. Use any of the handy online calculators to figure HP, heres one do take note it's one used by the racers; www.wallaceracing.com/hp-bore-stroke.php As I said all sales hype and at it's best I'll give it the 19.45 HP. Maybe you can help Dave on his next review? Got to remember these reviews are kind of the old buddy deal, I'm sure old Dave has one of these in his driveway from CfMoto for his words of wisdom but he really does need to visit the CFMoto site next time instead of using these challenging specs by different CFMoto sources. His review clearly can be seen on all the other things metioned that in lots of ways the CFMoto is the typical Chinese scooter but with the untypical price tag. In todays economy a untypical price tag means dust gathering on the sale room floor while the typical Chinese scooter with the lower price is running down the road. Even his final conclusion shows the typical Chinese flaws: As nice as the powertrain on the JetMax is, the fit and finish make it clear that this scooter is not up to the same standards as machines from Japan and Taiwan.
When it has a $4000 price tag with this conclusion one needs to get lucky on a Craigslist find or buy two of the typical Chinese 250's and do a good PDI.
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Clinician
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Post by jaksonbrown on Aug 9, 2012 19:02:58 GMT -6
I'm sure the Jetmax makes more than 16 hp. As I recall it has four valves to go with the fuel injection. If it was nothing more than a rebaked Linhai it wouldn't get out of its own way and Dave would have noted it. My Fashion's owners manual says 14 hp. If they were going to lie I don't think they would have waited until now. Doesn't matter EFI, HP is piston bore, stroke and gearing and no one indicated Dave was lying but it's just a review and IMO not a very good one because he himself was basing it against one scooter: I elected to NOT make a comparison between the JetMax and other scooters in the specification table because I don't have any direct experience with Chinese 250s other than the CFMoto FashionAlso he himself said the specs were everywhere: Getting exact specifications for the JetMax was bit challenging as different CFMoto sources had different information. For example published dry weight for the scooter varies from 260 pounds to 440 . He didn't say the specs were accurate but said what it was listed at and 22HP is a loooooong stretch on a 250. If the engine is like a lot of 250's especially like some CFMoto engines of the past the actually rating of the engine is 244cc. So for kicks just say the scooter is like the Fashion coming in at over 350lbs and with only 15lb of torque add another 200 for a rider and 22HP is even a longer stretch. He also made comparisions of speedometer being off and the fuel mileage won't stack up to other 250's. Dave's reviews even though thorough are simply an opinion based upon him riding the scooter one time. If CfMoto cannot provide current and accurate specs especially since they claim to be the "better" Chinese scooter then just like the others it'll be up to the person who buys it to find out the truth and since CFMoto seems to be giving up on long time proven scooters like the E-Charm they seem to be lowering there once quality standards in the name of staying in business. It would pay to do a PDI one one of these just like the cheap online Chinese scooter as it seems they are doing the same thing now. Only question is are they going to compete with the lower price tags of the others. I say if they don't they be in the TANK before long.
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Clinician
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Post by jaksonbrown on Aug 8, 2012 19:16:18 GMT -6
The CFMoto JetMax is powered by an in-house designed and manufactured 4-stroke, 249cc, SOHC, liquid-cooled and fuel-injected motor that produces 22 HP and 15 Ft-Lb of torque. It rides on a 15 inch tire up front with a 14 inch in the back. Triple disks (two in front, one in back) handle the braking duty. I elected to NOT make a comparison between the JetMax and other scooters in the specification table because I don't have any direct experience with Chinese 250s other than the CFMoto Fashion. There are others in the marketplace (the Linhai Main Street comes to mind) but based on the in-house development I consider the JetMax a "stand-alone" as of now.
Getting exact specifications for the JetMax was bit challenging as different CFMoto sources had different information. For example published dry weight for the scooter varies from 260 pounds to 440 pounds
22 HP, 15lbs torque, 249cc ? More like 16HP, same old you really don't know what the specs are. Good selling point .
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Clinician
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Post by jaksonbrown on Aug 8, 2012 18:16:14 GMT -6
Now that you mention it JAK it is more than incoherent rambling. park, aka earthman, teranuvo, and probably a dozen more AKAs ought to just shut up till he knows some thing for sure/ every time people get him figured out he just changes his name and starts over! incoherent ramblingYou mean like this? MY GOSH A depressed BUSY MIND CAN MAKE THE BEST FANTASY OF EVERY SITUATION CAN'T THEY.
TISK TISK AND NOW FALSE ACCUSATIONS, manic delusions ..next it will be pink elephants
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Clinician
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Post by jaksonbrown on Aug 8, 2012 10:30:53 GMT -6
Hey Park, I only get cranky when I read your rambling as in your reply #4. And of course when I get rear ended and loose a bike. That's okay Park, I understand that is just your style. I only get cranky when I read your rambling as in your reply #4.What do you expect out of a manic depressive who puts roach powder in a engine? ;D
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