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Post by mossy173 on Dec 15, 2012 13:45:24 GMT -6
The upshot: runs like a top. Starts on the first turn-over every time, electric or kick, idles beautifully, lots of punch. Glad that mystery is solved.
Watch out for the valves on BBK's!!!
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Post by mossy173 on Dec 15, 2012 7:27:16 GMT -6
Also, it seems like the finger test for compression is out. It will only fail when the compression is so low that the engine stands no chance of running at all, which I guess is useful in extreme cases, but not when there's a less dramatic loss of compression like mine.
also: I read about another trick which would have helped here, but I never tried it. if you hold a small (dollar sized) piece of paper against the exhaust while the engine is running, it should only blow away from the exhaust. If it ever flutters toward the exhaust there's a leak in the exhaust valve--you know this because the vacuum generated by the intake stroke is leaking through to the exhaust system, sucking your piece of paper backwards.
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Post by mossy173 on Dec 15, 2012 7:24:00 GMT -6
it's the valves!!!!! THE VALVES!! On a hunch, I pulled the head and did a trick I read about elsewhere, shining a light through the ports and seeing if I can see light around the valve from the cylinder side. I could see light all the way around both valves, and after pulling the valves out, I saw on the exhaust valve (what seems to me) a casting defect that left a 1/8 x 1/32" hole in the valve seal.
my god.
So, the quality of this ebay big bore kit is terrible. I threw out the valves that came with it--both were thin, warped, and there's that giant casting defect in the exhaust valve. I pulled the valves from the stock head (same size, thank god) and lapped them in the big bore head, then installed them. Now there's no light visible around the valves at all. I'm going to put everything back together today, and I'll bet you a dollar it runs like a top.
BUYER BEWARE. those ebay kits may be cheap, but you'd better be prepared to lap valves and do whatever else is necessary to make them roadworthy!
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Post by mossy173 on Dec 14, 2012 17:07:50 GMT -6
Yyyeah a compression tester and a new set of rings are both on their way.
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Post by mossy173 on Dec 14, 2012 16:10:16 GMT -6
It also worries me that I don't really feel resistance on the kickstarter. Back when I had a KZ750 I could stand on the kickstarter, and the compression would hold me up. I know that these smaller engines won't be able to do that, but I should feel *something*, right?? It is spinning the engine alright, however.
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Post by mossy173 on Dec 14, 2012 15:37:11 GMT -6
Well, through in the new carb, and got no start and a wet plug. I tried it at all throttle and mixture screw positions. I removed the crankcase breather tube to see if I could feel blowby out the valve cover vent, and there's some, but it doesn't seem like it's really blowing.
I took the top end apart to recheck the installation of the piston rings. The gaps are a bit big, at 0.011 and 0.012" for the two compression rings. Is that outside what's tolerable? I put everything back together after making sure the rings are in the correct order and orientation, and it runs just exactly as it has been--no start unless I crank it with supplementary starter power and starter fluid. Then it runs, but will only idle high. If I try to lower it the thing dies. The kickstarter absolutely won't start it.
What's bothering me is that I still haven't really properly tested compression--I hear that it should be 140+, and I'd imagine that it could blow my finger off the spark plug hole much, much lower than that. Could the large piston ring gap be killing compression to the point where it won't start or idle except at very high revs?
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Post by mossy173 on Dec 12, 2012 14:37:19 GMT -6
So the enricher doesn't put in more gas through the idle jet then, it's actually through its own outlet into the airway? Yeah, that would seem to explain the behavior pretty well. Welp, I'm not interested in taking the carb apart anymore, so I'm going to try just plunking a new carb and enricher in there and seeing what happens. This will be interesting to see.
I was pleased to see that the new carb has steel fasteners. Hopefully I've stripped my last carb screw.
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Post by mossy173 on Dec 11, 2012 20:01:23 GMT -6
Alright, I'm not fooling around, this time I'm just going to throw parts at the damn thing until it runs right. New auto-choke, new carb, and new piston rings all ordered off ebay. I'm sure it's either fuel delivery or ring gap, I'm gonna corner this thing.
What you say about having to use the main jet really seems like a good idea--that's gotta be it. We'll find out when that new carb comes!
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Post by mossy173 on Dec 11, 2012 19:41:13 GMT -6
Well, nuts. In attempting to pull the enricher, I stripped the brass screws holding it on. They are really on there. But maybe that's ok--couldn't we rule out the enricher just by the fact that there's a stalling problem even when it's thoroughly warmed up? Maybe the idle jet is clogged?
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Post by mossy173 on Dec 11, 2012 18:06:46 GMT -6
Hey, Alleyoop! Good to hear from you again.
I did check the plug, and it seemed to be dry. turning the mixture screw three turns out didn't change that, though. But if there isn't gas coming through, how could it start and run?
Also, how do I remove the enricher?
The fuel ratio mixture screw is currently turned out 1.5 turns, although i've tried it at all positions 0-3 turns out without too much effect aside from what I've already mentioned.
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Post by mossy173 on Dec 11, 2012 17:53:16 GMT -6
more potentially useful information--in attempting to get the scooter to idle, I tried moving the fuel mixture screw in and out. Screwing it in (clockwise) didn't seem to cause any change even when screwed all the way in, and screwing it out cause the motor to bog down and die around 2.5 revolutions.
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Post by mossy173 on Dec 11, 2012 17:43:59 GMT -6
One last thing, before anyone asks--the oil level is fine now, I did have to top it off.
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Post by mossy173 on Dec 11, 2012 17:42:22 GMT -6
aaaw, I'm back. Right back where I started, more or less. Here's the story--
Since the BBK install and ensuing hijinks, the scooter never really started very easy. That video above is the best it was, and it's been going downhill since. It got to the point where it would finally start after fifteen minutes of cranking and starter fluid, and that's where it is now.
It won't idle except very fast, and it likes to stall, even when warm. I've checked the valves, they're set at .004" intake and .005" exhaust. There's still spark, and being as it will reluctantly run, I guess there's no serious fuel issue. When it is running there's still a normal amount of power. I noticed it smoking for a few minutes once, but after turning it off and back on again I haven't seen smoke since, hot or cold. I've done the "finger test" for compression, and it feels like it always has, blowing my finger off the spark plug hole.
One more thing--it hasn't been able to kick start since the replacement at all.
My guess is maybe low compression due to incorrect piston ring gap? Would that do it? I thought I gapped the rings right, but maybe I didn't, or maybe they chipped.
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Post by mossy173 on Nov 21, 2012 18:42:38 GMT -6
Well, I can report that it's starting and running beautifully now, better than before I started. there's a new drill--crank the throttle two or three times to shoot a bit of gas in the carb, hold the throttle about 1/4 open, hit the button, and vroom. I think it took some running for everything to loosen up, or something?
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Post by mossy173 on Nov 18, 2012 12:37:22 GMT -6
Hey guys, great news. The idle tuned really nicely and now it's running just fine. Victory video below. You know what the biggest problem was? I was trying to prime it with gas for the weedwhacker, which had oil in it. I might just be dumb. The muffler smoked all to hell when it got hot until all that oil burned out. Sigh. Running great, and the extra 50 cc's really give it a nice oomph in traffic now.
Thanks for all your help!!!
It still doesn't want to start with the kickstarter, though. Any suggestions?
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