Clinician
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Post by ducked on Mar 25, 2014 17:44:19 GMT -6
Never done it with a scooter, but with cars the trick is breaking the bead. I used to drive onto the (deflated) tyre, or, if there wasn't space for that (working in a city street parking) shove the wheel under the car and then jack down on the bead.
Don't see why those techniques wouldn't work with a scooter tyre, assumimg you had access to a car.
If you're picky, though, you can't really balance a wheel properly yourself, as far as I know.
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Post by ducked on Mar 25, 2014 2:25:34 GMT -6
Sunflower oil.
In the event of rust, rub sunflower oil in with aluminium foil.
On my car, I also treat the tyres, window rubbers, and radiator hoses with sunflower or canola oil to avoid dry rot.
This is speculative, experimental and not necessarily safe, but it seems to work.
I havn't risked it on a 2-wheeler yet.
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Post by ducked on Mar 19, 2014 3:49:55 GMT -6
I suppose if you increase the torque gradually, so movement has time to happen, and you approach the "click-point" slowly, that should reduce the variability. The distinction between reaching, and holding at, the specified torque, while it is a real one, isn't one that's easy to make with a beam-indicating wrench, due to its wider range of reading precision, so it probably isn't worth worrying about. Friction is probably a larger variable, and I'm generally working with oiled or greased bolts, (while dry is usually specified/assumed) so obsessing over fine points of torquenique probably doesn't make much sense. I don't like stripped threads, but I don't like seized/stuck threads either. This thread www.thumpertalk.com/topic/426292-greasing-all-bolts/includes a suggestion to torque down dry to 1/3 of spec, and then record the angular movement required to reach final spec. You then repeat that movement with a lubed fastner, so it reaches the same position (and hence tension) though the torque, if you measured it, would be less due to the lube. The assumption is that at the 1/3 starting/reference point the torque isn't significantly affected by the lube. I dunno about that, but I'd think if you counted total turns from the start, that assumption wouldn't need to be valid anyway. Think I'll do that in future. |
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Post by ducked on Mar 18, 2014 4:28:04 GMT -6
As long as you have a working crankcase ventilation system or catch setup that little bit wont hurt anything. That comment seems to assume overfilling. Since I've been screwing...er.... apparently where I shouldn't , I've been underfilling. A bit. I think. I'd agree it won't matter though. |
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Post by ducked on Mar 17, 2014 4:43:34 GMT -6
Thanks. I don't have a a manual for this particular machine, but the first 4 Yamaha owners manuals I checked in your library (VERY USEFUL RESOURCE, thanks a lot) all say no screwing, so that'd be the way to bet for this machine. (Yamaha Breeze 125 scooter)
Strange if Japanese and Chinese GY6 recommendations are different (its a Honda engine originally, yes?). Suggests it doesn't matter very much, unless the dipsticks are very different.
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Post by ducked on Mar 16, 2014 23:44:51 GMT -6
As far as I can work out, my perceived problem still applies with the click-type wrench, its just less obvious.
If (say) I'm aiming at 30 ft-lbs and I hold it at 29 until it stops turning, then go to 30 and stop, (or click) its going to be tighter than if I go to 30 as fast as I can.
Same applies to the click-type. If the bolt is moving, there seems to be scope for a lot of variation due to technique.
More I think on it, the dodgier it seems.
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Post by ducked on Mar 15, 2014 23:14:50 GMT -6
Just used one on the gf's scooter head bolts, and realised I wasn't exactly sure how! Embarassing
(I've used one before but a long time ago, and maybe I didn't think of this before)
My uncertainty is with the interpretation of the standard "tighten nut until the specified torque is reached" instruction.
Just now, when I did that, the nut was still moving.
Should I stop at that point (as the standard instruction seems to imply), or hold the torque at that level until rotation stops?
The former seems likely to vary, depending on how fast you tighten the nut.
The latter seems likely to be more reproducible, but also likely to get the nut a lot tighter.
This is using a beam-deflection wrench.
I suppose, with the click-type, (which I don't have) you don't have the option of holding at the set torque value, but the rate at which you reach it must still influence the final tightness of the nut?
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Post by ducked on Mar 14, 2014 21:58:20 GMT -6
Well, I've been screwing it in (and screwing it up) so I spose I've been under-filling a bit (and telling her to). Moot point though, since when I've checked she's usually running it about half empty.  |
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Post by ducked on Mar 14, 2014 5:25:57 GMT -6
That is the basic scooter maintenance question. I'm taking advantage of the GF being away in China to screw around with/hopefully fix her scooter, which has been pissing oil for ages. Anyway, I've never worked on a scooter before, so I did a bit of Googling. Most of the web info is for US market GY6-engined Chinese imports, and there seems to be some disagreement over whether you screw the oil filler plug/dipstick in when checking oil level, or not, with the majority apparently favouring not. absolutelyscooterparts.net/pdf/C ... manual.pdf Says "The cap needs to be screwed in for proper reading" next to a picture of a filler plug/dipstick that looks exactly the same as the one on the Yamaha (a lousy design incidentally, provided with large un-cleanable grit traps, just what you want above your oil fill port. Not surprised Yamaha chose to copy that.) The other manuals I have, all apparently based on the same GY6 document which probably comes from Honda, all say "Check the oil level when the oil dipstick is unscrewed and out", which is a bit vague/meaningless. Presumably they mean the thread is just on the point of starting, but didn't care,( or couldn't figure out) how to say it, being Asian, and thus culturally hostile to clarity in writing. www.chinesescooterreference.com/pdf/daw ... manual.pdf The Scoot Dawg manual, written by Americans for Americans, also says "Do not screw the dipstick in while checking the level." so that seems to be the way to bet. Bit inconsistent, but nothing compared to the confusion surrounding published cylinder head torque settings. |
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Post by ducked on Mar 14, 2014 3:33:19 GMT -6
Thanks. That could be useful info.
I found a Raptor 125 service manual available for apparently free download on a few sites, but they wanted me to download a "downloader" .exe file. Don't fancy that, somehow.
Went to a Yamaha main dealer with the gf (yes, I am in trouble) and was told 220 ft-lb. (!)
Pretty sure that's bs/lost in translation.
They also said they didn't have a manual and just did it by memory. Probably true, though not exactly confidence-inspiring. They might just have been avoiding letting us copy thiers. They used to have a manual for my RZR motorcycle but I never copied it and its probably too late now, though I might be able to get one in Thailand.
I went through the figures in the Yamaha manuals you have links to on this site, and stuck them in a spreadsheet. They don't format well as text, but range from 10Nm for the Riva CA50 to 52Nm for the YP400T, though its unclear exactly what they're talking about in some cases.
The closest-looking engine (similar but not the same) is in the YP250 Majesty at 22Nm /16 ft lbs, so my guess of 20 ft-lbs, though it may not be correct, is at least reasonable.
This kind of hassle would be a good reason to get a "standard" GY6-engined scooter, rather than a do-its-own-thing Yamaha ("The Citroen of Scooters?").
I have to say, though, that I can't make much sense of the GY6 head torque figures given in the available "generic" manuals either, so perhaps its just me.
Quantity Nm m-kg ft-lb
Jog CS50Z Cylinder head and cylinder nut 4 14 1.4
Jog CS50Z Cylinder stud 4 17 1.7
YP250 (Majesty) Cylinder head and cylinder nut 4 22 2.2
YP250 (Majesty) Cylinder head and cylinder bolt 2 10 1
Riva CA50 Cylinder head nut 4 10 1 7.2
Riva CA50 Cylinder stud bolt 4 8 0.8 5.8
XC180 Riva Cylinder head cover ? 1 (?) 20 2 14
XC180 Riva Cylinder head 4 22 2.2 16
XC200 Riva Cylinder head cover 20 2 14
XC200 Riva Cylinder head 22 2.2 16
XC200 Riva Cylinder head - cylinder 22 2.2 16
YP400T Cylinder head and cylinder bolt 2 10 1 7.2
YP400T Cylinder head and cylinder nut 2 40 4 29
YP400T Cylinder head and cylinder Cap nut 2 52 5.2 37
YP400T Cylinder head cover and cylinder head bolt 9 10 1 7.2
YP400T Cylinder head cover and camshaft cap bolt 1 10 1 7.2
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Oil Filter
by: ducked - Mar 12, 2014 19:37:30 GMT -6
Post by ducked on Mar 12, 2014 19:37:30 GMT -6
Just did one on a Yamaha 125 Breeze (scooter not ATV). I used the small drain plug on the side of the sump to get most of the oil out first, and I didn't initially take off the filler plug to slow the flow while I was removing the plug. The opposite of the usual advice, IOW.
That way you don't get your bare hand covered in so much carcinogenic used oil.
Like this guy (!)
That wouldn't be so serious for me, since I don't do this every day, but still better avoided.
Wearing gloves is, let me guess.....for pussies?
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Post by ducked on Mar 12, 2014 18:56:07 GMT -6
Yes.
Scooter.
Yamaha use the name Breeze for various things. Here in Taiwan its a 125cc scooter, as I said, and the naked /unfaired version of a 150cc V-twin motorcycle. Probably other things as well. They just seem to like that name.
Apparently in the US its a 125cc ATV, but that'll still be useful if its got the same engine. If I can get it to download I'll have a look. Thanks for the link.
- Ah. Just realised its a pay-to-download. Not expensive at $11.95, but for now I'd have to be a bit more confident it was the right stuff before paying for it.
Thanks anyway.
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Post by ducked on Mar 12, 2014 5:48:56 GMT -6
Stupidly I took advantage of my girlfriends abscence to "fix" her scooter, (a Yamaha Breeze 125) which has had a bad oil leak for a while. Even more stupidly I initially assumed it had a "conventional " valve cover, and loosened what I should have realised were head stud nuts. I've fixed an oil leak from one of the circular valve adjusting ports, but its now leaking from the cylinder base. I don't know if it always did that, or its started because I didn't torque the head nuts enough. I'd "guessed" at 20 ft -lbs I'll try torquing to spec if I can find out what they are, but it'll probably need a rebuild. I really need a manual. Anyone know where I might get one? For example, are any of the models linked to on this site likely to have the same engine? The cylinder head/valve cover has what looks like "Y7-1" and "18800" cast into it. The side of the cylinder barrel has "YAMAHA 4CWO3 124cm3" cast into it. (Thunbnails link to full-size images)   |
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