My MC 54 250B, 2008 model just does not run much at all. By bobf (Read 3,841 times)

[bobf]

My scoot has had lots of time on the other forum but not much input from anyone at all. So I will give it some time on this forum too.

It has been months now and no success at all for getting it to run. Today I tried again, have the valves reset, have the original carb back on, will put the original fuel pump back on this afternoon. I have a hard time getting it to fire and start. I put in a new plug.

One thing I am concerned about is the hose routing's to the carb. I just have no idea where to put the hoses for the water or the vacuum. All done by guesswork and have not found any photo's or sketches of proper routing's. I dumped all my gas and replaced it with fresh gas.

One thing I have thought of trying is to remove all the water hoses from the carb and air system areas. When it does run it blows lots of black smoke around but only runs with the throttle advanced.

Any ideas of what to do? I have considered a valve job but don't want to do that till needed. I am lost and on the other forum I have had only a few efforts to help but hoping for more if possible from this site now.

Thanks for any help.

[Alleyoop]

Welcome BOB, good to have you on the forum. Hope I can be of help and get you riding and not wrenching.
The BLACK SMOKE is it OIL OR GAS JUST PUT YOUR HAND OUT THERE AND THEN YOU WILL KNOW IF IT IS GAS OR OIL.
IF IT IS OIL then you have a motor that needs a rebuild it is burning oil and it could be the valves leaking and or piston rings.
If it is just sooty gas that can be fixed pretty easy.

I can verify if the hoses are correct on your carb VACUUM hoses and what not. If you can take a picture of your carb area and hoses that will help and I can label things out for you on your picture of the carb area.

The water jacket on the carb can be taken off it does nothing and you can plug up the inlet hose and the outlet hose. Actuall the jacket on the carb is only held on by ONE SCREW you can take the jacket off by unscrewing that screw NOT NEEDED and most folks take them off or just not connect the water to it. Back in the early days it was thought to flow some hot liquid by the ENRICHER to help with the flow of gas DOESN'T work very well and basically not needed.

Which motor does this scoot have the 244cc HELIX VERTICAL motor or the LINHAI HORIZONTIAL motor.

CLICK ON THE PICTURES TO EXPAND THEM:





Here is your carb:

[bobf]

Thanks Alleyoop. Sorry about putting my note in the wrong place

I just had the water hoses off the carb and it started quicker and ran smoother. Your idea of doing without those water taps on the carb sounds good to me.

It has been putting out some bad black smoke in the exhaust when it would run. I am thinking that might have been some coolant getting into the system.

Right now I am about to end up for the day and think about dinner and some TV world news. Will take another look tomorrow at what is happening and if there is still black smoke with the water disconnected.

Several months now with no help that did any good. Not a put down of the other forum as I am sure those that did offer ideas and hope did with good intents. I hope your idea is the first of steps that will get my scoot back to working again.

[Alleyoop]

Ok, will check your thread tomorrow have a good evening.
Alleyoop

[bobf]

Today's fun and learning.

Carburetor ports:

1. On top rear, 1 brass tube pointing to the left.

2. On right side lower half, 1 tube near front front for gas. Two tubes midway front to rear with 1 pointing to right and on pointing toward five o'clock.

Tubing available:

1. Left side, vacuum tube that goes to number 1 carburetor port.

2. Right side, thermostat housing tube to tube pointing straight out to right. The second tube, returns to the fill point near the radiator cap and connects to the 5 o'clock tube.
..........................

I did a run just now, with and without the coolant lines attached. In each case the exhaust was so smoke filed. The engine ran too slow for idle control so I had to hold the throttle open a bit to keep it running.

I guess I could pull the top to sections of the motor and do a valve job. Anything more and it must go to a shop if I can find one.

Your comments are welcomed.

[Alleyoop]

On the Throttle cable side you should have a SCREW with a SPRING UNDER IT that is your IDLE ADJUSTMENT SCREW if the idle is to low. It should idle around 1800-2000 rpms and the REAR WHEEL NOT SPINNING. So turn that screw 1/8 clockwise to raise the IDLE. If the IDLE IS SET TO LOW that also causes hard starts the butterfly is closed to much blocking some of the tiny pilot jet outlets and not enough fuel can be sucked into the motor.

On the COOLANT LINES you can take the longest hose and just go from the coolant out to radiator and nothing to the carb, Or you can plug the coolant outlet and coolant radiator return.

CAN YOU TAKE a PICTURE LIKE THIS from the top?

CLICK ON THE PICTURE TO EXPAND IT TO SEE THINGS BETTER:

[bobf]

I guess I was not clear as the engine runs too slow for the idle control to do any good. I can screw it down as far as it goes and not enough to make the engine run faster. I have tried to change the cable position by putting the adjustment screws high on the shaft or way down to the lower end. Neither position allows me adjustment. I looked at the handle bar adjustment but that seems to be only for rather fine adjustments and the motor end for larger adjustments.

It made no difference if the coolant hoses were attached or off and plugged.

More important to me is to somehow get the engine to be running again like it should and then start making changes to the hoses. My motor starts and runs poorly no matter what I have tried so far. And changing to a different carburetor did not make a difference either, so back to the original one.

Not sure I still have a camera. Have not used a camera for several years now. If I had a camera that worked I would then have to ask how to get a photo on this post. I guess I could look for my lonely camera and see if I can take some pictures. I have been using the pictures in the Honda Motor CO., LTD instruction manual. Some are good and some pretty poor.

Any thoughts on possibly the valves or rings are giving up? This engine only has about 246 miles on it so far. I have changed out some of the electrical parts but so far nothing has improved so maybe the wrong parts have been chosen.

Ever since I bought it I have had the covers off for one reason or another. First time was for sealing the gas tank as it leaked around the gas gauge entrance hole when I first got it out of the crate. Since then we have had to take things apart so I could fix the seat latches. I have had to put in a new thermostat and temp sender in the bottom of the radiator. So for me this has been both fun, while riding and while learning how to fix. Other things have happened also but I just can not remember them all. This current one is a real bugger. I have been working on a naked frame with the motor all exposed for about 6 months now.

[Alleyoop]

Have you adjusted the FUEL RATIO MIXTURE? on yours it is probably UNDER the intake which is a PAIN IN THE ARSE to get at. So try this if you can get at it while running Turn that screw Clockwise 1/4 turns and SEE IF THE IDLE GOES UP, IF IT DOES NOTHING turn the COUNTER CLOCKWISE 1/4 turns 2 times. You are listening for the IDLE TO GO UP OR DOWN. If you turn it one way and the IDLE GOES UP turn it 1/4 turn at a time until the IDLE NO LONGER GOES UP.
Alleyoop

[bobf]

I just don't have enough arms right now. I have to hold the throttle and play up and down to keep it running. It will not run on it's own. I guess next week I will go to the only dealer I think may be willing to work on it. Scary though as they may just spend like crazy and expect me to pay.

I did forget to do the hand in the smokey exhaust that you posted. Will do that next time I get it running, maybe if I tape the throttle where it keeps on running so I can go to the back to do that. No more today though. I have some things to do soon and not scooter stuff either.

[Alleyoop]

WEll what you just said is a CLASSIC for tight VALVES which creates loss of compression.

Now is this the HELIX 244cc MOTOR like the picture I put up?

[Alleyoop]

IF YES ADJUST THE VALVES AND HERE IS HOW_TO MOTOR NOT RUNNING:
Alleyoop

If the video does not want to come up copy the entire link and paste it on a browser.

[bobf]

Thanks for this film Allyoop. I have used this method in the past but also have used the while running method too. So I will take the side cover off and try this way once again.

I did put my hand into the exhaust and I guess it was the dry dust type, not oily this time. So is adjusting the valves the solution this time? I sure hope so. I will try just loosening them first to see I can improve things. But do think the fixed marker was a bit more accurate. For me, I have a terrible time trying to adjust while the engine is running. The screws just keep on turning and looking like they will come off.

More fun tomorrow.

[Alleyoop]

Yes, loosen them and then try to start the motor if they where tight and loosing compression it will start up much better.
The Right one is the INTAKE and the LEFT ONE IS THE EXHAUST; You can see them MARKED "N" INTAKE and "E" EXAHAUST.
The RIGHT ONE INTAKE MARK THE NOTCH IT IS AT YOU WANT TO MOVE it to the NOTCH LEFT of it SO YOU would move the plate RIGHT.
THE LEFT ONE EXHAUST MARK THE NOTCH IT IS AT YOU WANT TO MOVE IT TO THE NOTCH RIGHT of it SO YOU would move the plate LEFT.

[bobf]

And yes, this is the Honda Helix 244cc engine. Several requests but I kept forgetting. Maybe tomorrow will be a good day for me after I reset the valves again. I used the same method some time back because I have never felt good with the setting while running. But I have tried the setting while running since I did the physical spotting and then resetting one notch idea. So it could be anything right now. I also took your advise and set a bit looser for now. Only problem with the setting to the marks is taking the side cover off. Sometimes it is a bit of time getting those two screws relocated correctly so they can be tightened.

[Alleyoop]

You only loosen the screws you do not take them out just a little loose just enough that you can move the plates.
Alleyoop