Will Not Start, Starter Sounds Labored By hellbilly (Read 886 times)

[hellbilly]

Hello Folks,
I had a previous post HERE. It was a question about a muffler and I fixed it. Thanks for the replies. 
I sold it to a friend. One day he came by and said it wouldn't start sometimes. I tried to crank it , 
but it didn't crank.
The starter sounded fine at that time.
I let him store it in a shed in my backyard. Shed had big hole in roof. Parked it in a spot away the hole.

Time goes by  , He wants to get it back on the road. I wanted to learn about repairing scooters.
So his is great for trouble shooting. There were 2 or 3 mouse nests. They had chewed on several wires.
Some all the way through.
I fixed all the wiring,All electrical system good.2 lights were out, but swapping bulbs showed that the 
sockets were OK. Need to order those 2 bulbs.
I DO get spark when I try to crank it. The fuel seems correct. Fuel flows easily
from tank & through filter.Fuel seems to be
getting through the petcock from the vacuum of the cylinder moving. The brake light works and the 
safety switch is working prpperly. Battery is good. It even tested good at the advance store.
It tested good on my trickle charger too. 

When I try to crank it the starter sounds Labored, it sounds much slower than it did when I stored it.
I tried hooking an automotive battery in parallel with scooter battery. Still sounds exactly the same as one battery.
I am confident my wiring is correct. I have electrical knowledge, read schematics, solder, etc.
I followed a video on youtube to trouble shoot the electrical system. I"m not sure posting a link to  
a youtube video beaks forums rules?? Y'all probably already seen it.

I haven't attempted anything inside the motor or inside the carb. 
I'm guessing that I should remove the starter and see if runs that way.
If it runs then re-install the starter, and check to see if anything is binding it up.
I am going to get some clear tubing for the fuel system.
Any help would be appreciated. 

[czmdiver]

Check your Ground wire. Remove it and spiff up both ends

[dyoung1167]

I had what seemed a bit on again off again with with slow cranking for a short time regardless of how good the battery was that in reality quickly became only slow cranking. I took the starter out and found it was full of oil. This being a 150 the starter is mounted on the right side with direct oil contact and the starter clutch and the seal around the starter shaft was bad. If yours is a 50cc the chances are this isn't the problem due to it being mounted on the left and engages a gear directly behind the variator and is zero contact with oil.

[cyborg]

Sounds like a bad starter to me

[lostforawhile]

you need to measure the voltage directly at the starter terminal when cranking, if it's good, it's probably the starter, this will rule out a bad solenoid etc, I've been through two already in 3000 miles, and I'm about to replace a third, it seems they aren't made worth a crap. I also jump started mine, and it would crank fine for a few seconds, then slow down, I made nice crimped 6 gauge starter and battery cables, if it won't crank with those and a jump start battery, there is nothing else but the starter. I also noticed that the chinese scooters copy Honda on the solenoid mounting, so if you have to replace one, I would bet an early gold wing solenoid, drops right in there, much better quality

[hellbilly]

hello czmdiver

That did help it spin a little faster but not much.
Thanks for the reply.

[hellbilly]

Jan 21, 2018 9:31:50 GMT -6 dyoung1167 said:

I had what seemed a bit on again off again with with slow cranking for a short time regardless of how good the battery was that in reality quickly became only slow cranking. I took the starter out and found it was full of oil. This being a 150 the starter is mounted on the right side with direct oil contact and the starter clutch and the seal around the starter shaft was bad. If yours is a 50cc the chances are this isn't the problem due to it being mounted on the left and engages a gear directly behind the variator and is zero contact with oil.

Yes this model is a 150cc , i will check out the starter in more detail.
Thank you for your reply.

[hellbilly]

Jan 22, 2018 19:59:57 GMT -6 lostforawhile said:

you need to measure the voltage directly at the starter terminal when cranking, if it's good, it's probably the starter, this will rule out a bad solenoid etc, I've been through two already in 3000 miles, and I'm about to replace a third, it seems they aren't made worth a crap. I also jump started mine, and it would crank fine for a few seconds, then slow down, I made nice crimped 6 gauge starter and battery cables, if it won't crank with those and a jump start battery, there is nothing else but the starter. I also noticed that the chinese scooters copy Honda on the solenoid mounting, so if you have to replace one, I would bet an early gold wing solenoid, drops right in there, much better quality

Thank you for your reply. I will check out the starter in greater detail.

[hellbilly]

Jan 21, 2018 10:22:00 GMT -6 cyborg said:

Sounds like a bad starter to me

Thanks for for your reply

[lostforawhile]

I just changed out another one, fixed the starting issue, when they go bad, you'll hear a distinctly different sound, as it's not spinning the starter clutch enough to spin out the gear properly, to engage the ring gear teeth. it almost sounds like the engine has no compression when it's failing. the edges of the clutch drive teeth,will rattle against the ring gear. The starter has to spin over the engine really fast, almost like kick starting it, at least on AC cdi ones.